HPP Biz

[mermaid53]

quote:

---

Originally posted by flyingsurfer

This is a civil lawsuit. There are no criminal charges.

---

Sorry for the confusion. I know this is a civil suit. I was just making a point that in a court of law the master mind is usually charged more harshly than the accomplices. They recognize the difference.

[flyingsurfer]

Mermaid:
I was not referring to you. But comments others have made. Sorry for the confusion.

[janet]

mermaid:

"Lack of experience and knowledge; unwillingness to fact check information before proceeding too quickly on many actions; unwillingness to learn from more experienced board or committee members. Viewing them as threats to their agenda and retaliation would follow; total disregard of certain individuals to follow rules; arrogance; followers who thought and think they are following leaders that had checked their facts. The perfect storm. All of this and more contribute to what we've been observing from day 1. The pattern is the same today."


A most succinct, accurate and encompassing description. Brava!

[mermaid53]

I seriously doubt that Kahunascott or hppwatchdog will ever get the satisfaction he's seeking on his big day in court. These board members already know what the charges are and he's stated on punatalk that there are video/audio recordings blah blah blah. They too are preparing for the big day, as anyone would surmise.

NO ONE knows, including "youse guys", how all this will end and the trial hasn't even started. None of us, including myself, should get caught up in any further taunting that the plaintiff posts. It's time to move on to more productive discussions about current affairs in HPP.

Question: Does anyone know whether the board can deed one of our 20 acre parcels away without a membership vote to do so? Should the county pay road fees x 20? There was no real discussion about the particulars before Roseanne motioned to deed the land at the last board mtg. Councilman Greggor Ilagan thanked the board and said their atty and HPP's atty would meet to start the action.

[caveat emptor]

Mermaid you ask a very important question. A knowledgeable person just told me that this BOD or any BOD has no right to deed away association property without first attaining the consent of the members. I believe that to be accurate myself. The reasoning is if a BOD can deed property away at their will then, it can be done whenever the urge strikes them until we no longer have community property.
The solution, once again referring to an earlier comment you made, is to hold a special members meeting ASAP and include 2 items on the agenda i.e. chip seal and this matter. Since the BOD had no authorization from the members to transact any business with the County their vote (once again) is illegal. Remember, my statements are neither for or against the County park only the procedure. My guess is that if this proposal were submitted to the members it would pass. So why be so deceptive and shove it down our throats?

I doubt very seriously the County would be interested in paying HPPOA's road fees on property that they would own if this "deal" goes through.

[kalakoa]

Since the BOD had no authorization from the members to transact any business with the County their vote (once again) is illegal.

Standard operating procedure, local tradition dontcha know.

[punaticbychoice]

kalakoa:
It's a free form world here- for those who can get away with it.

[mermaid53]

FYI: Use this at board or general membership meetings, it's your right and members' checks and balances.

Robert's Rule of Order 11th Edition, Chapter VIII Incidental Motions

P. 247 "POINT OF ORDER. When a member thinks that the rules of the assembly are being violated, he can make a Point of Order (or raise a question of order, as it is sometimes expressed) thereby calling upon the chair for ruling and an enforcement of the regular rules."

P 249-251.

"A Point of Order:

3. Is in order when another has the floor, even interrupting a person speaking or reading a report if the point genuinely requires attention at such a time (see Timeliness Requirements for a Point of Order, below)

4. Does not require a second.

5. Is not debatable, but, with the chair's consent, a member may be permitted to explain his point and knowledgeable or interested members can be heard by way of explanation.

6. Is not amendable.

7. Is normally ruled upon by the chair. No vote is taken unless the chair is in doubt or his ruling is appealed.

8. Cannot be reconsidered.

Further Rules and Explanation

"GROUNDS FOR A POINT OF ORDER. It is the right of every member who notices a breach of the rules to insist on their enforcement. If the chair notices a breach, he corrects the matter immediately; but if he fails to do so through oversight or otherwise- any member can make the appropriate Point of Order. The presiding officer may wish to engage in brief research or consult with the parliamentarian before ruling, and may allow the assembly to stand at ease (see p. 82) while he does so. In any event, when the presiding officer has made a ruling, any two members can appeal (one making the appeal and the other seconding it), as described in 24.

If a member is uncertain as to whether there is a breach on which point of order can be made, he can make a parliamentary inquiry of the chair (see pp 293-94) etc....."

TIMELINESS REQUIREMENT FOR A POINT OF ORDER. If a question or order is to be raised, it must be raised promptly at the time the breach occurs. For example, if the chair is stating the question on a motion that has not been seconded, or on a motion that is out of order in the existing parliamentarian situation, the time to raise these points of order is when the chair states the motion. After debate on such a motion has begun, no matter how clearly out of order the motion may be, a point of order is too late....." (This is also why it's important for the board to be heard using their mics during board meetings)
_________________________________

At the last board meeting, members calling a Point of Order was appropriate and correct. It was done loud but respectful. Without a mic, to be heard you have to speak loudly. Some board members thought it a disruptive act and disregarded the explanation that there was a motion still on the floor from the previous membership meeting. Even after two points of order being called by 2 diff members, they still were going to proceed. The only reason they didn't proceed was because the treasurer commented that there didn't seem to be any logic in spending more money to even pave one road w/chip seal if the GM was exploring a different product. It was then the motion was rescinded.

A member viciously yelled, "Shut up!!!" towards a member saying Point of Order, and should've been given a warning for her outburst. No member behaving inappropriately should have a pass card bc she's a friend of the VP and former Pres RM.

[kalakoa]

A member viciously yelled, "Shut up!!!" towards a member saying Point of Order, and should've been given a warning for her outburst. No member behaving inappropriately should have a pass card bc she's a friend of the VP and former Pres RM.

A developer created a subdivision which should have been denied due to lack of infrastructure, but they got a free pass by putting the right "friends" on their board.

"But this is totally diffferent" -- no, it's the same old "selective enforcement".

[Katarina]

Thank you Mermaid for the info on the last board meeting. I had to leave soon after it started. So, 3 presidents in 1 year. That must be a record. I can only hope the new one will at least attempts to know the by-laws and Robert's rules and follows them. The only reason the board is "vetting" candidates and potential committee members is to make sure they are of "like minds". They are skewing the leadership that does not represent the membership at large but to liken their agenda; to eliminate potential problem (in their minds) and silence.This is not in HPP's best interests. Has the giving of our 20 acres been decided by them as well? No sane person would just give the county 20 acres. Once given, we have lost any say. We could end up with a road maintenance yard or a county building and there wold be NOTHING we could do about it. I have no issue with deeding the land to the county after the park is completed. Ilagan is naive and inexperience. It appears he does not know how to research and get information or answers. His begging was a sad sight. I also thought there was talk of another special members meeting to give a informational presentation on chip seal. The quietness on the topic is concerning. I have heard some positives but an equal amount of negatives. I'd like to know more or is this decision with our money going to be made by the few?Caveat Emptor stated that in 2013-14 there was a lot of time and energy put into coming up with the "extra burden road maintenance plan" but this board has done nothing about it and now Roseann and her husband are heading up another committee on the issue. Can these people do anything right? Janet is 100% correct. What has happened in our community since the new 2014 board took over was all planned by vengeful cowards hiding behind the scene. Could a disgruntled committee member who didn't get his way or didn't feel listened to or a former employee who was replaced by someone far more competent have found, gathered and inspired these relatively unknown and uninvolved members to pull the stunts we've witnessed? Who ever has the agenda did not and does not care 1 bit about the repercussions of their actions for all HPP. The chaos,fall out, frustration and fracturing of a whole community for personal revenge and satisfaction is selfish and despicable.Any person associated in any amount of what has happened here is culpable. Maybe we will never find out who they all are but they have to live with what they did and if they can do that then we know what we are dealing with. A person who intentionally destroys another's livelihood doesn't have a conscience or morals or ethics. They may live in a nice house but that doesn't take their stench away. If they were in the position they forced the fired employees into or those of us who care about HPP they'd be screaming and loud. The board has had a year to show us the missing money and materials and dirty deeds but they can't because there were none. They could have come forward and apologized and left no stone unturned to make amends but they don't , instead they continue to lie and lie and lie. I think far more of someone who admits error than a hiding coward, but all the infractions are not a mistake. It was all planned and the members are paying for it. I see Mermaid posted a bunch of by-laws. Where were you last September when all this was brought to light? We heard over and over to give the board a chance. No other board has been given so many chances. They knew what they were doing and they do not care.