building material / tools

[HADave]

Can someone tell me if the Borate treated lumber is treated for ground contact?

Should an insulator be used between them and concrete?

Is the integrity of the wood lessened from the treatment is it equal in strength to regular construction grade lumber?

Dave

[Rob Tucker]

The borate is not suitable for ground contact protection and a barrier should always be employed between wood and concrete. The borate will not lessen the strength of the wood itself but you sould keep a few things in mind.

Plates are where the concrete meets the wood frame. Plates are also where the most weight load occurs (compression). This is why the highest grade of lumber is
normally specified for plates. Most Doug Fir lumber has a flat compressive strength of about 1,000 psi (I believe). Not bad but not that great either.

It is not desirable, over time, for a low grade wood to be used in this position so care should be used in choosing the right wood grade for the house plates.

U. Hawaii, Manoa entomology department does a lot of termite testing. In presentations I have attended the entomologist explained that there used to be very effective treatments for termites. They were so toxic however that the EPA has banned them now for a number of years. He also said that the hi-bor (borate) treatments now used have proven to be effective in their termite mound tests for approx. 3 years. Not too impressive in my opinion.

When using hi-bor treated lumber you should buy a gallon of hi-bor and every cut end and every rip should be dipped or brushed with the hi-bor treatment. To not do so simply compromises the treatment. Though borate is pressure treated it does not penetrate completely into the lumber. The larger the beam/post the less penetration.

A chain is only as good as it's weakest link. I have never yet seen a local carpenter do this. Only owner/builders seem to care.


Edited by - Rob Tucker on 11/26/2005 18:55:08

[HADave]

Thanks Rob, again first rate info.

This leads us to a question during site prep, but also, I believe its must be more of a material question. Your reference to the entomology department of the university. I've been doing some reading and it suggests that certain substrates are a precursor to good termite protection. One that was mentioned was volcanic cinder. Although they briefly spoke of sizes they made no actual mention of specific sizes other than termites can tunnel through some sizes and not others. Are you or anyone else familiar with the preconstruction "GREEN" concept for the protection from termite invasion.

They also spoke of a product called termi-mesh a stainless steel product developed in Australia but wicked expensive.

This subject also should be discussed under site preparation if they are methods that require excavation work. I will question there as well. As always Thanks for your support

Dave

[adias]

Is wood the most cost effective building material in Hawaii? What are the possible alternatives?

In many tropical countries material other than wood is used; stone, brick, concrete blocks etc. The problem with termites, wood rot and the application of poison to combat termite is not very appealing.

Does Hawaii soil have high clay content, making it suitable for creating bricks? Are bricks manufactured in Hawaii and used for construction?


Ajit

Edited by - adias on 11/27/2005 11:25:43

[HADave]

HI-Bor pressure treated wood specifically treated for and by a Hawaii company in Honolulu and produced for sale by Honsador a dedicated distributor. Interestingly I have discovered that borate treatment is very environmentally friendly as well as user friendly in that no need for masks or gloves are required and scraps can be burned or disposed of regularly. The treatment also is backed by a lifetime limited warranty against termite damage when used in accordanced of the warranty. It is however not to be exposed to constant sources of water as leaching can occur and reduce the effectiveness of the treatment. When used in these areas paint or stain is required to protect the wood's treatment. Also additional measures must be taken to assure no ground contact is made by the wood. It is noted that as simple as covering the wood with plastic in areas of ground contact should be sufficient protection.

I also found in the reading regarding termites that where cement is used in the form of slabs and mortar, cracks are a very big concern as these little creatures find their way to and through them and on to choice interior materials that not treated such as windows and doors cabinets and floors. So I believe with the use of the Basaltic Termite Barrier reccomended by the State of Hawaii and the use of Hi-Bor, Sodium borate treated lumber one should be as protected as one can be from these nasty little devils. I am still hoping someone in the forum has had experience with the size of this basaltic cinder that is to be used. It is supposed to be to large for them not to carry away and small enough to be sufficiently compacted.

Dave

[Lucy]

Adias,
I have read years ago that one problem with using concrete blocks is moisture penetration into the center of the block and mold growing there. I am very sensitive/allergic to mold and would not want to rebuild because of that reason.
I thought of using the lava rock as it is used in fencing. But I think it is cost prohibitive to have done. then how could you resell the place. You always have to build with the eye toward resale. Even if you think it will never happen. It may somewhere down the line.
You just don't see the stone or brick there, so there must be a reason. Bricks I think it is cost, to get it there and they are labor intensive to lay. I live in an all brick house and really like it. Hardly any maintence ever.
For what it is worth, we have used Sevin powder around our house here in TX. and have few problems with any bugs, including termites for 14 years. Here they also swarm (fly) once a year. We have pets so are very careful of what we apply. Yard seems to remain flea free also. Apply only twice a yr or less a thin line directly up by slab foundation. We alo have lots of bugs being in a southern climate.

Having another Great day in Paradise, Wherever that Maybe!

[Daniel M]

Was recentlty watching a show on HGTV called Ask This Old House. They were discussing pressure treated and other materials used for fighing rot/bugs/mold etc.

They were discussing a new product wood product treated with Sodium Silicate that looks promsing. It is pressure treated with Sodium Silicate, which crystalizes the wood structure which forms layers of microsopic glass particles.

The company which manufactures this stuff (TimberSil) says it is:

Non-toxic
Non-carginogenic
Non-crossive
Non-leaching
Non-dusting
Fire-retardant
No heavy metals
Resistant to mold and mildew
Strong, duragle, oderless and non-volatile.
Not harmful to tools

To distinguish it from other treated lumber, it is brown in color.

The cost is less than tratatiional pressure treated woods.

They are in the approval process with the ICC(?) to obtain approval, but in the meantime they have obtained local bulding code approval with some counties in FLA. and South Carolina.

The company claimed they directly buried some of this stuff in termite beds and after several months it had no damage.


TimberSil is for interior use
Timbersil Plus is for exterior use with a 40 year guarantee.

Google Timbersil for more info.

Dan



Dan

[HADave]

The info on the product Timbersil appears quite promising. A big thanks to Dan for the post, I checked it out and although it is not recognized by the county building department as an approved material, it may be soon. I sent an email to the folks at Timbersil and they replied the following message;

"We are working on distribution through Huttig Building Products as we speak. I would expect them to have some product on the islands in the Spring 06. Bill Beard"

A second reply;

"We have not yet met with local code enforcement on the Islands. We have typically met with individual code officials and qualified for use under the exception provision that they can approve. We may have other code approval by Spring from ICC but that is a long process. We may want to meet with the local officials, so the more specific location you can give us the better. The only code restrictions that we are aware of will be ground contact, sil plates and ledger boards, so even if we are waiting for approval, TimberSIL Treated Wood can be used in framing, truss's, decking, siding and etc.

Bill Beard <bill@timbersil.com> "

Edited by - HADave on 12/05/2005 21:31:15

[HADave]

I recently updated one of my power tools and did bussiness at Home Depot thinking I would get a lower price here on the mainland. I found out two things while I was there the price is the same no matter where you make the purchase and you can make the purchase one place and pickup at another. The other interesting find was RIDGID power tools sold at HD now carry a lifetime parts and service warranty, something new they started this year. Usually you get a ninety feet or ninety second warranty most places. All you have to do is keep the receipt but be sure to photo-copy it as they use a soy based ink and it will fade away after time.

[wyatt]

Hey HADAVE,
Good to know about the Rigid Warranty.
We recently went back to California for Thanksgiving with the $99.00 each way last minute sale from Aloha Air. We loaded boxes with saws, drills,etc. just under 50lbs each.
Well over $600.00. of tools. Two of the boxes
were opened an inspected but all arrived in one piece.
Wyatt