Posts: 1,440
Threads: 4
Joined: Sep 2014
"Good question, I was anticipating someone asking exactly that. For me, it would be the peaceful end to the sovereignty/overthrow of our Kingdom issue, which has been going on for over 100 years.
The "win" would be resolution once and for all,..."
?
I hope you realize that amounts to no answer at all, opihikao. Simply stating one wishes to see a resolution could mean just about anything, as long as there is resolution. Any ole resolution will do?
Posts: 1,440
Threads: 4
Joined: Sep 2014
" The hand-wringing over suppression of the Hawaiian language gets to be a sideshow based on whipping up emotion over images of children being punished. Meanwhile, the foolishness of protesting the TMT goes on."
Thank goodness. This very much needed to be said right about now.
Posts: 171
Threads: 3
Joined: Mar 2013
quote:
Originally posted by shockwave rider
MT View dude: "The "beatings for speaking hawaiian" seem to be on the scale of a spanking and not real violence. I am sorry, but I do not consider "rapped on the head by a teacher" to be on the same level as "beaten"."
You carefully leave out the deprived of food and not allowed to return home to family as punishment for speaking your own language part of the narrative, can you imagine being punished for speaking you own language by being deprived of seeing your family for months on end? These are exactly the methods used by missionaries in the Native American boarding schools to destroy the Native American cultures and turn the younger generation into what the missionaries defined as "productive citizens". Wrenching children away from their families and culture, and physically punishing them for speaking their own language, is "real violence" to individuals and to a culture. Sorry you were beaten as a child for having the wrong skin color, but that does not justify what was done by the government and missionaries to an entire people to ensure they were the ones in power, and that the Hawaiians would have no voice in government in the new system.
The Hawaiian Kingdom went from non literate, without a written language, to being the most literate nation on the planet in one generation; when the official language was changed to English, and schools imposed an English only policy in the education, they became "illiterate" again in terms of being able to use the language of the government and business. What better way to disenfranchise a whole people than to switch the language from one they read and write to one only the conquering elite use, and then make sure they punished for using the language their families and the Hawaiian Kingdom had used for the business of government? If you can't read, speak, or write in the language of government, you can't participate in that government.
This is the crux of the issue, because the government in question was both the Hawaiian Kingdom and the Republic of Hawaii.
The kings and queens modeled themselves after european royalty. Kamehameha III opened english language schools and made english a preference. Kamehameha himself started the breakdown of hawaiian culture and kapu system. Kamehameha's son and wife practically destroyed the Hawaiian religion.
It is really disingenuous to throw all that blame on the republic when the kingdom was as much as fault. However, you can't blame the kingdom without losing the claim to that kingdom, so it becomes missionary and government.
If that is the worst example one can come up with to show how the hawaiian language was banned by beatings, then it's better to stick with the "beaten for speaking" hawaiian bit.
The funny part is the state of hawaii has been a better steward of Hawaiian language, culture, religion then the Kingdom of Hawaii ever was. If only the sovereignty supporters were 1/10 as critical of themselves and OHA/DHHL then they are of the state.
I do see one side committing a lot of illegal acts, disrepect and falsehoods and it isn't the state.
Posts: 1,513
Threads: 18
Joined: Oct 2014
quote:
Originally posted by MarkP
My feelings align with those of Punatic007 and rainyjim. The hand-wringing over suppression of the Hawaiian language gets to be a sideshow based on whipping up emotion over images of children being punished. Meanwhile, the foolishness of protesting the TMT goes on.
As an aside, I have read references to both the UN and the Dalai Lama commenting on the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement. Not that the internet is infallible, but when I google those topics I get nothing. All I found was a reference to David Keanu Sai and Lance Larsen pretending to have a dispute between the Kingdom of Hawaii and the US government worthy of taking before the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague, in the hopes that by getting that august office to hear their case it would confer some legitimacy on the Kingdom of Hawaii even though the original case was bulls**t. It didn't work of course. Anyway, where is evidence that either the Dalai Lama or the UN has commented on the sovereignty movement? I care because every time an argument is shown to be false the damage is worse than just losing that argument. There is a cumulative loss of credibility that hurts even legitimate arguments.
Last visit of the Dalai Lama to Hawaii, the Hawaii Tribune Herald did a front page piece on his visit and a talk he gave. Part of that article included his response to a private audience given to the HI sovereignty group asking for his wisdom and blessings. He said he didn't understand their plight it made no sense to him and he had nothing for them. I don't remember exactly been a couple of yrs. Archives front page HTH, have at it.
Regarding the United Nations, the comment I wrote about in an earlier post was made to me by a personal friend with the UN as a response once again being told about their plight by a guy who represents the movement at a booth at the Weds night farmers market at Uncle Roberts. I do not know if she identified herself to him. I do not know if there is an official UN stance on the issue.
Are we clear now?
Posts: 735
Threads: 20
Joined: May 2006
How's about this as a solution to the sovereignty issue? Restore the monarchy with all it's trappings and wealth but make this a position with no real political power like the Queen of England or Emperor or Japan. Change the name back to the Kingdom of Hawaii while still remaining a state of the US. I believe Texas still calls itself a "republic" so what's the difference? Keep everything else the same. Now the kingdom has been restored and the sovereignty activists can go home.
Posts: 1,513
Threads: 18
Joined: Oct 2014
A couple of decades ago a sociological study of the county of Hawaii took place due to some of the highest crime rate in the USA. We were labeled "a culture on a downward spiral".
All this nonsense we are experiencing now in my opinion is simply another rung in the descending spiral. Hopefully enough positive healthy people will one day tip the scale and become the majority. Maybe they already have?
My favorite comparison here is to the nomadic Mongolian hilltribe peoples who were the original inhabitants of many Asian countries thousands of years before the current countries lines were on the map. Having lost their hunting grounds to pollution, depletion of game and the growing world population, all they want is citizenship or residency in countries where they now reside.
Having come from Hawaii and listening to all the whining about the "plight", I asked a chief how he felt about the injustices of losing it all, assuming everyone has an attitude. His response...
"We have lost our hunting ground and we want to change with the world. All we ask is the legal opportunities to do so. We blame no one, why would we do that?"
He couldn't even understand why I asked him that. I let him know his dignity and grace should be an example to the whole world especially Hawaii. Thought the comparison would make a great documentary some day but I'm not doing it.
Posts: 2,481
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
I found this very tepid response to the following question, at about the 01:04 mark:
"How can indigenous people who have become strangers in their own land try to regain peace when surrounded by their oppressors?"
I am guessing the author of the question was talking about Hawaiians. The response was rather tepid. The Dalai Lama's first words in response were "be realistic".
http://dalailama.com/webcasts/post/238-a...r-of-aloha
Posts: 1,440
Threads: 4
Joined: Sep 2014
quote:
---------
" I found this very tepid response to the following question, at about the 01:04 mark:
"How can indigenous people who have become strangers in their own land try to regain peace when surrounded by their oppressors?"
I am guessing the author of the question was talking about Hawaiians. The response was rather tepid. The Dalai Lama's first words in response were "be realistic".
http://dalailama.com/webcasts/post/238-a...r-of-aloha"
----------
Always good to go straight to the source if can. Video of the talk is about as direct as it gets. Unfortunately, I am having difficulty accessing video right now.
In the link dakine provided ( http://dalailama.com/news/post/693-his-h...days-world), there is mention of the question quoted at top.
----------
" Another question asked how indigenous communities who have become strangers in their own land and are surrounded by their oppressors act. His Holiness said people have every right to preserve their identity. But there was also the need to take a look at the reality of the situation. In the case of Tibetans, His Holiness said we have adopted the Middle Way, which is non-extreme, practical and realistic. He said there was the need to think broadly. He said today’s world has become such that it was unrealistic to think of remaining isolated."
----------
From reading the summary of the talk provided in the article referenced above it is pretty clear that, first and foremost, the Dalai Lama places much emphasis on finding peaceful resolutions through implementation of a unified perspective of humanity taking primacy over holding onto more divisive provincial mindsets.
I would imagine being presented with the question...
"How can indigenous people who have become strangers in their own land try to regain peace when surrounded by their oppressors?"
...might very well come off as an unproductive choice on the part of the person asking the question to foster a perspective highly loaded with divisive negativity.
-----------------------------
Edit: additional quote from article -
" The moderator then requested His Holiness to explain if there was any relation between his concept of a universal responsibility and the discussion they were having. His Holiness said that universal responsibility was at a different level, at the level of humanity. He said it meant developing a sense of oneness of humanity, without letting the difference in nationality, color, race, religion, etc., divide the people. He said that he found this spirit of oneness among scientists irrespective of their background. Similarly, it was also present in the religious tradition, too. His Holiness felt that if people only thought of the “small we” then problem would arise. Instead they should think about the “big we” that that is global, he said."
Posts: 1,858
Threads: 46
Joined: Apr 2015
My uncle and father both had their left hands tied behind their back at young ages to force them to be rightys. A stupid idea whose only existence now is in the history books. About as good a reason for revolution as beatings for speaking Hawaiian. We live we learn. We forgive we forget. Most of all, we move on. It's the only way.
Posts: 363
Threads: 1
Joined: Apr 2015
quote:
Originally posted by Kapoho Joe
My uncle and father both had their left hands tied behind their back at young ages to force them to be rightys. A stupid idea whose only existence now is in the history books. About as good a reason for revolution as beatings for speaking Hawaiian. We live we learn. We forgive we forget. Most of all, we move on. It's the only way.
Yeah because trying to completely wipe a nations language from existence is the same as changing the hand you write with.
|
