HPP Biz

[beepbeep]

Your by-laws haven't kept up with modern organizational structure or modern technology. You are too big now for a little squabbling volunteer board that is more suited to put on a bake sale than to manage very large sums of money. Get professional help. No, it's not my business, just painful to watch. You have simply outgrown your structure which was on shaky ground to begin with. Good luck and God bless.

Pam in CA

[reni]

"Your by-laws haven't kept up with modern organizational structure or modern technology. You are too big now for a little squabbling volunteer board that is more suited to put on a bake sale than to manage very large sums of money. Get professional help. No, it's not my business, just painful to watch. You have simply outgrown your structure which was on shaky ground to begin with. Good luck and God bless.

Pam in CA"

Hi Pam...yes so painful to witness. Our bylaws are great.....they just aren't followed. For the life of me, I can not understand why otherwise intelligent landowners behave so foolishly. Follow the law as you serve! Is this so hard to comprehend???? Would any of us drive 70mph down the hwy....because we are late??? Or would we consider the consequence??? Being on a neighborhood board is not easy.....guaranteed failure if laws are not upheld.
We need professional property management or Board members who understand the necessity and are willing to uphold laws .....problem is we need 9 or at least a majority of 5 to push thru getting professional help. Otherwise, ANYONE who has a background in running a Corp. wishing to help is literally a sitting duck...risking personal liability in even trying to serve. We seem to keep getting the same personalities..... reason and bylaws be damned! It's about ME, my group and I'm out to ice you! and I'll show you......stay tuned for yet another episode of "AS our Stomach Turns".

[hppwatchdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by mermaid53

Kalakoa's on point... and TomK's was humorous. It's weird w/all the diff colored fonts in one post. It feels like watchdog is ensuring my posts get blocked in???

Aloha Cathy. I mentioned it bc I wondered why you removed it. Your being entertained by the mgmt's blunders w/HRC is valid.

But hey, this board voted the VP onto the HRC and we're already on another drama ride in less than a month of her motioning herself as chairperson. There's at least 3-4 violations already. The majority of the board apparently doesn't care about these violations, or the past violations committed over the many months after she hijacked and took over the last HRC. It appears her drama has become the norm, business as usual, for this "sorority".

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It's not that they don't care they are clueless, if they would read the bylaws they could act on things like HRS.

[hppwatchdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by reni

"Your by-laws haven't kept up with modern organizational structure or modern technology. You are too big now for a little squabbling volunteer board that is more suited to put on a bake sale than to manage very large sums of money. Get professional help. No, it's not my business, just painful to watch. You have simply outgrown your structure which was on shaky ground to begin with. Good luck and God bless.

Pam in CA"

Hi Pam...yes so painful to witness. Our bylaws are great.....they just aren't followed. For the life of me, I can not understand why otherwise intelligent landowners behave so foolishly. Follow the law as you serve! Is this so hard to comprehend???? Would any of us drive 70mph down the hwy....because we are late??? Or would we consider the consequence??? Being on a neighborhood board is not easy.....guaranteed failure if laws are not upheld.
We need professional property management or Board members who understand the necessity and are willing to uphold laws .....problem is we need 9 or at least a majority of 5 to push thru getting professional help. Otherwise, ANYONE who has a background in running a Corp. wishing to help is literally a sitting duck...risking personal liability in even trying to serve. We seem to keep getting the same personalities..... reason and bylaws be damned! It's about ME, my group and I'm out to ice you! and I'll show you......stay tuned for yet another episode of "AS our Stomach Turns".

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Professional help has been recommended for years and years and the board has refused it every time. June brought in a parliamentarian and certain directors told her that they didn't want her to interfere with their meeting.

[beepbeep]

But do you have a mechanism for owners to override a dysfunctional board?

Pam in CA

[reni]

yes, arbitration.

[hppwatchdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by reni

yes, arbitration.

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Actually, there are no provisions in HRS 414D for arbitration.
Removal by a judge for gross negligence or willful misconduct is the only option outside of a recall of each director.

[mermaid53]

We do have provisions for arbitration in our bylaws:

Article XV - Alternative Dispute Resolution discusses arbitration.. "In the event of disagreements between the board, its committees, employees, volunteers of the Association, or any of the lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision arising from or relating to the interpretation or implementation of the provisions of these bylaws, the parties shall pursue dispute resolution by arbitration in accordance with the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association and Chapter 658A of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, as amended. Arbitration shall be binding on parties to the controversy. Any judgment and/or award rendered by the Arbitrator may be entered into any court having jurisdiction thereof."

An attorney suggested that members find the receivership documents and look for the provisions in it. He said judges don't like it when their instructions aren't followed. If the provisions aren't being followed by the board, you can then inform the judge. Judge Nakamura's the who was involved in our receivership and is still an acting judge. It would require going to the court house to find copies of those documents.

Members have been saying for some time now that we're too big to be governed by volunteers. Volunteers come and go and while they're on the board they can either do a really honorable job, or really screw things up bc there's no accountability. Anyone who's willing can apply as a candidate for the board as long as they're up to date on their road fees. That's the only stipulation so far in our bylaws. We are appreciative of volunteers coming forward but at the same time, we don't know who they are and what their background is.

They could have a criminal record, be con artists, have emotional or personality issues and so on. We'd never know about any of it until it's too late. Once they're in, it's not like you can fire them. The board has an easier pathway set up in our bylaws to get rid of a board member but if they don't act, what then? We require more information on our employees when they're hired but it's the board who manages the employees. The board manages millions of our dollars. Background checks aren't cheap so for individual members to take this responsibility on is highly unlikely. We could end up being stuck w/a troublesome board member for 3 years. The state laws seems to protect the board members and not the members of a non profit association. Unfortunately the association as a whole can't vote out any board member. You have to collect 200 signatures of that rep's district which then prompts the recall.. 2/3's majority vote of ballots returned determines the outcome.

Property mgmt has also been discussed for some time now. Members could form a committee at a membership mtg whose task could be to research property mgmt; the costs to manage a place the size of HPP; what companies there are out there and their background; and all the ups and downs of having property mgmt; how this ties in w/our bond requiring a board to exist. Could we have a smaller board? The bylaws would have to align with this. The bylaws committee is still active so this would be the right time to make changes if needed.

No one's come forward to spearhead this action and this idea was tossed out on PT some time ago. Our next membership mtg is in late October. We have a lot of intelligent members in HPP who could start researching if they're up to the challenge. Each committee member could take on a different aspect of the research and the committee could report back to the membership. Maybe by the Feb membership mtg all the data could be collected and presented. A preliminary vote could happen at a membership mtg and if the majority votes for it, then vote to mail ballots to the entire membership for vote. Just throwing ideas out there. I'm sure someone could come up with a better idea and plan for us.

[hppwatchdog]

[quote]Originally posted by mermaid53

We do have provisions for arbitration in our bylaws:

Article XV - Alternative Dispute Resolution discusses arbitration.. "In the event of disagreements between the board, its committees, employees, volunteers of the Association, or any of the lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision arising from or relating to the interpretation or implementation of the provisions of these bylaws, the parties shall pursue dispute resolution by arbitration in accordance with the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association and Chapter 658A of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, as amended. Arbitration shall be binding on parties to the controversy. Any judgment and/or award rendered by the Arbitrator may be entered into any court having jurisdiction thereof."

I guess you really don't get it! This Article, XV, is for disagreements not the removal of a director, for this information you must go to HRS 414D, which states the judicial removal route.

[hppwatchdog]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mermaid53

We do have provisions for arbitration in our bylaws:

Article XV - Alternative Dispute Resolution discusses arbitration.. "In the event of disagreements between the board, its committees, employees, volunteers of the Association, or any of the lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision arising from or relating to the interpretation or implementation of the provisions of these bylaws, the parties shall pursue dispute resolution by arbitration in accordance with the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association and Chapter 658A of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, as amended. Arbitration shall be binding on parties to the controversy. Any judgment and/or award rendered by the Arbitrator may be entered into any court having jurisdiction thereof."

An attorney suggested that members find the receivership documents and look for the provisions in it. He said judges don't like it when their instructions aren't followed. If the provisions aren't being followed by the board, you can then inform the judge. Judge Nakamura's the who was involved in our receivership and is still an acting judge. It would require going to the court house to find copies of those documents.

Members have been saying for some time now that we're too big to be governed by volunteers. Volunteers come and go and while they're on the board they can either do a really honorable job, or really screw things up bc there's no accountability. Anyone who's willing can apply as a candidate for the board as long as they're up to date on their road fees. That's the only stipulation so far in our bylaws. We are appreciative of volunteers coming forward but at the same time, we don't know who they are and what their background is.

They could have a criminal record, be con artists, have emotional or personality issues and so on. We'd never know about any of it until it's too late. Once they're in, it's not like you can fire them. The board has an easier pathway set up in our bylaws to get rid of a board member but if they don't act, what then? We require more information on our employees when they're hired but it's the board who manages the employees. The board manages millions of our dollars. Background checks aren't cheap so for individual members to take this responsibility on is highly unlikely. We could end up being stuck w/a troublesome board member for 3 years. The state laws seems to protect the board members and not the members of a non profit association. Unfortunately the association as a whole can't vote out any board member. You have to collect 200 signatures of that rep's district which then prompts the recall.. 2/3's majority vote of ballots returned determines the outcome.

Property mgmt has also been discussed for some time now. Members could form a committee at a membership mtg whose task could be to research property mgmt; the costs to manage a place the size of HPP; what companies there are out there and their background; and all the ups and downs of having property mgmt; how this ties in w/our bond requiring a board to exist. Could we have a smaller board? The bylaws would have to align with this. The bylaws committee is still active so this would be the right time to make changes if needed.

No one's come forward to spearhead this action and this idea was tossed out on PT some time ago. Our next membership mtg is in late October. We have a lot of intelligent members in HPP who could start researching if they're up to the challenge. Each committee member could take on a different aspect of the research and the committee could report back to the membership. Maybe by the Feb membership mtg all the data could be collected and presented. A preliminary vote could happen at a membership mtg and if the majority votes for it, then vote to mail ballots to the entire membership for vote. Just throwing ideas out there. I'm sure someone could come up with a better idea and plan for us.

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You would have to change the bylaws in order to hire a management company. The bylaws clearly state what the duties of the GM are and think about the overhead and margin that you would have to pay an outside company.

I'm sure glad I didn't buy a house in HPP!