Best Air Rifle?

[birdmove]

Thought I'd mention one line of airguns that are, though made in China, still a quality made item. These are very good copies of an older Crosman CO2 rifle. They are made by Industry Brand, and are designated as the QB series. They are quite similiar to the current Crosman/Sheriden 2260MB. The 2260MB uses a single CO2 cartridge, and the QB series use either two of same, or a refillable larger canister, and one model, can easily be converted to PCP, which is compressed air instead of CO2.
Here is the page that shows the various models and prices:

http://www.airgundepot.com/search.html?keyword=QB+Beeman&submit=&prv=&adv=&hawkb=

These are all available in either .177 or .22 caliber. They are all metal and wood. The Crosman/Sheridan has a plastic trigger and guard. The Crosman is about $150.

The QB79 Premium Combo for $199, is the PCP version. You install that tank, and the barrel has to come off for that. Once installed, you don't have to remove the tank unless for maintenance. You have to buy a hand pump, which is a special device (can't fill these wit a regular tire pump). The pump start at about $140. Pump it full, and you have about 80 good full power shots before having to refill.

The basic QB78 is supposed to be a fine shooter too, getting 60+ shots from a set of two CO2 cartridges, and comes ready to shoot. The QB78 Deluxe comes with a little bit better wood, and a thicker barrel. If you want, you can run then on one 12 gram CO2 cartridge. To do that, you have to insert one empty cartridge, and one full one. I think one CO2 cartridge will get you 40+ shots.


Jon in Keaau/HPP

[MarkP]

I'm going to send back the Benjamin Trail NPXL 1100 if they will take it. The good people at Crosman sent me out a new scope and I bought some very nice steel scope rings to mount it with but my groups just kept getting bigger. I use these 3" peel and stick targets and at 18 yards I would occasionally get a flyer that didn't even hit the target. I checked the tightness of the pivot pin that connects the breech and barrel with the rest of the gun and found it loose. I gleefully tightened it and went out side to test it. It seemed better at first but I still get numerous flyers, so much so that I don't see counting on the gun when I really need a shot to count. I tried my Marlin 60 with CCI quiet ammunition (40 grain bullet @ 700 fps) and get much tighter groups without the weird flyers. OK but that doesn't have the challenging recoil that a springer does. I tried the Gamo Hunter 220. It's a springer and it has only iron sights and I get tighter patterns with it too. I really wanted this to work but if I get tighter groups from a 20 year old rifle with iron sights.....

I should really go with a PCP gun but they are so expensive plus they require a source of high pressure air. An RWS Model 54 might be a nice compromise though.

[birdmove]

Mark, springers can be very maddening for sure. My two are.

On the subject of PCP's, a few things. First, Crosman is very soon going to have a new one called the Maximus, and it will be a lower pressure one. This means, you can get the special PCP air pump, and easily pump it up. The Maximus will be similiar to the Discovery, but with a synthetic stock. You would have to buy the pump too, as a regular tire pump will not go high enough. The Maximus should be under $200 once it hits the market, from Amazon.

Here is another option: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=56

Here is a good review of an owner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXcMs9lJzI

Flying Dragon is very highly thought of at the Gateway To Airguns forum, and a gent named Mike Mellick os the owner.

The lower pressure PCP air rifles, the Ctosman Discovery, the new Maximus, and the Flying Dragon, are all lower pressure airguns. All are easily pumped up via the hand pump. These guns are getting like 20 shots before refilling. That is not shooting it till it's empty, but shooting it till the velocity lowers to the point that the pellets are dropping too far.

Flying Dragon has the same basic air rifle that is powered by two 12 gram CO2 canisters for $120. Here it is:

http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=55

If a CO2 gun would be something you might be interested in, there is the (now under the Beeman name) QB78 and QB78 deluxe:

http://www.airgundepot.com/beeman-qb78-d...rifle.html

http://www.airgundepot.com/beeman-qb78-air-rifle.html

These also, run on two CO2 cans, but, on any airgun that uses two, if you only want to shoot, say 40-45 shots, put in one full CO2 can, and one empty one, and they will work fine.

There is also the Umarex Fusion CO2 shooter. I have a Crosmam 1077 12 shot repeater, but the accuracy isn't the best, mostly due to a terrible trigger. And, that trigger will always be a rough one, as the trigger pull also advances the 12 round clip, cocks the gun, and fires it. It runs on one CO2 can, and
, I think these are going for about $70 on Amazon. The repeating aspect is nice. I can shoot this one better than my springers though, but just not as well as my best shooters.

Walmart has the best price by far on CO2 powerlets in the 12 gram size. Sports Authority is too high, as is everyone else here.

Note that, you can buy the Flying Dragon CO2 air rifle, and then get the "filler cap", that goes on the end of the air chamber, and then you have a PCP airgun. Here is that filler cap:

http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=62

You would, if you use that filler cap and go PCP, still need the special air pump. Set up like this, you would get fewer shots per fill, as when Mike converts this gun to PCP, he extends the pressure chamber, which you wouldn't have with the CO2 gun and filler cap. I don't know how many shots per fill with the gun set up like this. But, you would have two options. 1. Shoot it using one or two 12 gram CO2 cans, or 2. bulk fill with HPA using the air pump to 1500 psi.






Jon in Keaau/HPP

[terracore]

I nearly felt like a little kid on Christmas when I found out that Crosman was coming out with a sub-$200 .22 PCP air gun until I read the stats. 900 FPS and single-fire bolt action? That's only about 50 FPS better than their $150 break barrel version (which includes a scope, I don't think the Maximus does and the Maximus requires an additional expensive pump). I understand the improvement of time not having to cock the rifle but that alone isn't enough for me to save up for one. Maybe the accuracy is better, or there is another advantage that I have not considered?

Either way its a change in the right direction (prices coming down) and although I have to pass on getting one, it's nice to know its an option.

[MarkP]

Birdmove, thanks for the heads up on the Maximus. I am intrigued. I am not sure what the problem is with the NPXL 1100. While I am sure that it could be my aim, I doubt it because I do better with another spring rifle. That and the problem seems to be getting progressively worse. The rifle seems to group for a few shots then I get an outrageous flyer that misses the 3" target entirely from less than 20 yards.

As for the Maximus I read that a combo deal with a pump would be $350. I strongly suspect that the problem with the NPXL is related to the break barrel pivot or just generally to the recoil. Just because I got a new scope doesn't mean that THAT one wasn't bed too and the problems with scopes are usually related to harsh recoil. Anyway the PCP won't have the pivot point or the recoil. I have been tempted by the various 2260 versions of CO2 gun for all the reasons previously given and figure that the Maximus would be a step up so I will be watching closely.

I emailed the Crosman people last night and figured I would hear back from them today but no response which is weird. When I contacted them about the scope they immediately sent back an email just to let me know they got mine. Later an actual person got in touch with me. I would actually be OK with sending them the whole gun for them to fix as long as it doesn't cost me too much but I figure it's on them. They way the gun is operating now is not what they advertised.

[birdmove]

I know that there can be a pivot screw issue on these, and that they use plastic washers on the pivot screws. You could try tightening these if you haven't already. On the Gateway to Airguns forum there is information on these. A fair number of shooters get brass washers from Home Depot and replace the plastic ones. I believe the brass ones usually have to be sanded down thinner till they get the best fit. Also, tightening all the stock screws may help, as they can work loose on these types of airguns. Maybe some threadlocker?

The 2260 CO2 air rifles are very nice. If you did go for one of those, you want the Sheridan 2260MB, as the "MB" stands for metal breech. You need that metal breech to securely mount a scope on. Aigun Depot sells that model, and I think they are about $150. They are a .22 caliber, and have a nice wooden stock. They use one CO2 cartridge.

Jon in Keaau/HPP

[birdmove]

My oldest air rifle is my Crosman 1077. This one is a .177 caliber CO2 powered airgun, using one 12 gram CO2 can. It is a true repeater. It has a removable magazine which holds a circular 12 round clip. The CO2 just pushes the pellet from the clip and down the barrel. All other functions, cocking the hammer, rotating the clip, operating the trigger mechanism, is done by pulling the trigger. This make the trigger pull pretty heavy. I bought this one new about 12 years ago, and, not only is it still going strong, but I have returned to this air rifle and have been shooting it a lot recently. I think I am a bench rest competitor at heart, but never had the almost mystical skills that people in that activity must have. Not just the super concentration, but machine like trigger control, breath control, and, yes, even, if not actual heart beat control, at least an awareness ofwhen and how strong your heart is beating. A perfect target at any distance always measures 0 inches center to center, and though I can do it at 10-11 yards with a decent airgun, doing it at 100 yards with a centerfire rifle has not been in my repertoire.

The 1077 is not known for it's wonderful accuracy, and, it is just not possible to modify the trigger to give it a fine pull and release. And yet, when it comes to just good old fashioned fun, this airgun has it to most shooters. It has way too much plastic to endear it to me to a high level.

The 1077 is, as far as size and appearance, a pretty close copy of the Ruger 10/22 rimfire semi automatic rifle.

It suffers from one particular design flaw. The muzzle end of the barrel is not properly supported. A gent makes a "Delrin" muzzle bushing for this air rifle, and I recently ordered and installed it. Now that the barrel is solidly supported at the muzzle, group tightness has improved, and the number of uncalled fliers has lessoned in number, and decreased the distance out of the main group by a big factor. Still not as good as my best, most consistent and accurate air rifles, but it is respectable, especially for a repeater.

As far as a rat hunter? Maybe now. It's said that to hunt small critters and pests, you need to be able to hold your group size to one inch (that's every shot) at whatever distance you are shooting at. This airgun, with me at the controls, is now meeting that level of accuracy. This would be good at a place where there are a lot of rats. 12 shots before having to reload would be handy for that type of use. It's not so easy to reload, especially with the tiny .177 caliber pellets, in total darkness.

Amazon has the basic 1077 without a scope, for about $70.
http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-1077-Repeat-Semi-Automatic-Pellet/dp/B001BS3YW6/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1462938242&sr=1-1&keywords=Crosman+nightstalker

I"m getting right about 40 good shots from one CO2 12 gram cartridge, and then the pellets start dropping on the target as the gas pressure lessons. I remove the canister at that point, though even as the point of impact drops, the pellets are still usually grouping all right.

AS long as I don't leave the CO2 can in the gun, I have never had a problem with the 1077. It's a good idea to remove the can anyway, as leaving it in for long periods may flatten the o-ring causing leaks.



Jon in Keaau/HPP

[MarkP]

I sent the NPXL 1100 back to Crosman today. The person I am conversing with said that their technician would look it over and then I would be offered a replacement. Hmm... Do you suppose they would offer me a Maximus? Just have to wait and see.

[MarkP]

I sent the gun back 9 months ago. I ironically followed it to the mainland and was probably 20 miles from the shop in Central NY where I sent it. They shipped it back without warning me so I was not there to receive it and it took 3 tries at my place plus final delivery to my neighbor. Anyway counting the original $260 plus shipping for repairs plus several sets of scope rings I am probably into it for well over $400. I can't reliably hit a 3" target from 25 yards and some of the flyers are pretty dramatic. They didn't actually repair the rifle, they just sent me another. The final scope mount I got is a solid one-piece unit and the scope is finally not visibly creeping so I don't know what the problem is but I am fed up.

[terracore]

I think my Crosman .22 isn't packing the wallop it used to. I've checked around with some friends and acquaintances and all the "next generation" air rifles are having problems with their seals and sadly they are only good for a few years. Of course, everybody's mileage will vary but I think the climate here is especially tough on them.

All that being said, an acquaintance that lives in a packed subdivision on Kauai is now using a regular .22 rifle with subsonic rounds designed not to wake the neighbors and says it's no louder than an air rifle but kill pigs in one shot. Stueb's in Hilo has a number of nice sub-$190 semi auto .22 rifles: http://www.hiloguns.com/Contact-Us.html

The process of getting your permit to acquire (it changed on Jan 1) takes 14 days and costs $42. Just be sure you familiarize yourself with the laws regarding using a firearm.