EBT dollars at work

[Mimosa]

Perhaps you are correct L.D. but the rules have changed recently .

Mrs. Mimosa

[alaskyn66]

Hawaii hasn't yet joined the rest of the country in dropping foodstamp recipients. But that doesn't mean they won't in the future.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assist...ers-expire


..What would King Kamehameha do..

[AlohaDave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mimosa

Aloha Dave - We get it - where you live over on the continent food is cheaper .
This is an island - 95% of food items are shipped in and taxed every step of the process - so your taters at .69 cents a Lb on average here are $1.29 a Lb
A gallon of milk from america is on sale 5.99$ a gallon .
Do you have rat lungworm to contend with in your fresh salad as we do here or leptospirosis (sp?)
The health Dept rules and regs are very stringent here and for good reason.It is the sub tropics and food borne illnesses are a threat to the entire populace .
The USDA has even more strict rules here than where you reside .
So does the DOH .

One of the good things here is a person on SNAP can purchase seeds for veg and fruit tree's to raise their own fruit tree's and veg gardens .

Until you actually live here Aloha Dave we understand fully that foods are cheaper where you live than where we here on Hawaii the Island live .

Mrs . Mimosa

---

I have lived there, I currently reside on the mainland.
The fact is, more people can make a better profit selling flowers than they can by farming food.
Food is shipped to me, the same way it is shipped to you and much of it comes from tropical South America.


What I suggested was growing more on the island, where many costs could be removed from the cycle of taxation, middle men taking a cut and transportation costs.

The whole buying seeds to plant fruit trees sounds unusual when you can get the pits for free after you consume the fruit
Might be better to sell small saplings!

[leilanidude]

One can still show up in Hilo fresh off the plane and walk out with a $330 a month EBT card. However, they must now either enroll in a resume' class followed by getting a job for 19 hours a week or more or then volunteer for 19 hours a week at one of many options provided by the county. These actions also qualify them for TANF funds if they have a family of any sort, which can be up to $204 a month per person, if fully qualified. TANF has a 5 year lifetime max, courtesy of former president Bill Clinton. It was part of the Welfare Reform Act. (full disclaimer - I have worked as a consultant for both the county and state, in this very office, as well as the other government offices in the building)

[kalakoa]

many costs could be removed from the cycle of taxation middle men taking a cut and transportation costs

I agree 110% with the theory, however the reality is that insurance, worker safety regulations, building codes, and land values make this a non-starter.

If the transportation costs (gas) weren't artificially subsidized, local production might actually be able to compete.

[AlohaDave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kalakoa

many costs could be removed from the cycle of taxation middle men taking a cut and transportation costs

I agree 110% with the theory, however the reality is that insurance, worker safety regulations, building codes, and land values make this a non-starter.

If the transportation costs (gas) weren't artificially subsidized, local production might actually be able to compete.

---

The math is obvious:
Cost of flying in product from overseas + Taxes + shipping it via vehicle to it's point of sale on the island
VS
Growing it on the island and shipping it to the point of sale on the island.

Do the math.

Explain how worker safety, insurance, building codes differ and affect the cost significantly from anywhere else.

AG land can be much more expensive in the SE & in Cali especially when taxes on land in HI is much cheaper than in most mainland states.

Regulations in Cali are very complex
Worker Safety is mandated by OSHA Nationwide
Building codes? Seriously how does that affect a field of crops?

Crop insurance?

I also know all about the worker laws in HI

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

AlohaDave,
I have grown vegetables commercially on the mainland and on Maui.
I can tell you from experience, it is a much more difficult prospect in Hawaii than on the mainland. Much more difficult to grow (nematodes, fruit flies, and everything else that attacks plants) and harder to sell your crop to buyers who want to pay almost nothing for your product.

If it was as easy as having the maximum number of climate zones, or just a warm climate, people would grow vegetables here. But it's exceptionally difficult, which is why it's not done, and why I am no longer in the business. And believe me, I will see most anything through to the bitter end.

If you think you've recognized an opening in the market here, you should give it a try.

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[AlohaDave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

AlohaDave,
I have grown vegetables commercially on the mainland and on Maui.
I can tell you from experience, it is a much more difficult prospect in Hawaii than on the mainland. Much more difficult to grow (nematodes, fruit flies, and everything else that attacks plants) and harder to sell your crop to buyers who want to pay almost nothing for your product.

If it was as easy as having the maximum number of climate zones, or just a warm climate, people would grow vegetables here. But it's exceptionally difficult, which is why it's not done, and why I am no longer in the business. And believe me, I will see most anything through to the bitter end.

If you think you've recognized an opening in the market here, you should give it a try.

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

---

I understand your point of view.
It's the same with most farmers worldwide.
There is not a large profit margin.
It becomes a volume business.
But, just look at the tomato businesses in HPP inside greenhouses.
Anything can be grown regardless of insects.

The fact that people want to go for the highest profit margin available speaks to the problem.

What happens when there is a problem that disrupts the food supply to BI? The rich and poor starve alike?

The point I continue to make is that the high prices only hurts those in poverty. And poverty leads to drug abuse & crime.

I know of several co-op pieces of land on Kauai that are filled with
veg gardens for the local residents. Seems to work there.

Coffee farms in the correct geographical areas seems to be doing fine and are even able to export product.

If you can't become a millionaire doing it, don't do it??? bah
That's just "lazy" talking.

People complain about crime, fix the problems that lead to it.
And food security is going to be paramount in the years ahead with
global climate change as disasters are inevitable.

[alaskyn66]

According to a 2008 report.. Hawaii has about 7 days worth of food.less now I'm sure ..as the population has grown.so if something disastrous or a strike by the freight haulers happened.. it would be troublesome...but just as they do in any remote areas in trouble.. they will fly supplies in.

..What would King Kamehameha do..

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

If you can't become a millionaire doing it, don't do it??? bah
That's just "lazy" talking.

I was a vendor at one of the largest farmers markets on the mainland, at that time. 130+ sellers. I never heard a single grower talk about getting into the business to become a millionaire. And I certainly wouldn't describe any of them as lazy. Most of us woke up at 2 AM to load our trucks, so we could drive to the city and set up by 5 AM.

I didn't change vocations because I couldn't become a millionaire selling beans and lettuce, or because I was lazy. But thanks for your insights into the mindset of the average farmer.

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky