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"The biggest concern I have is when digging two (2) stories down into Mauna Kea, that the law states, the land must be returned to "the original state when leased (not prior to)" (not verbatim, but damn close; we use it in all of our AG leases) at the end of the lease. Now, under US law, and the master lease (and the sub-lease), how is TMT or any other observatory in the future going to adhere to that condition?"
They will remove all traces that they were there and they fill in the hole.The site for the TMT has been vetted that there are no traces of human existence.
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I did choose not to post anything informed, intelligent, or with any pearls
So it's a choice, then?
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The biggest concern I have is when digging two (2) stories down into Mauna Kea, that the law states, the land must be returned to "the original state when leased ... how is TMT or any other observatory in the future going to adhere to that condition?
ophikao,
When I visited a friend in Gillette, Wyoming back in the 1980's, she gave me a tour of the open pit coal mine where she worked. It was perhaps a mile in diameter, and hundreds of feet deep. The trucks had to drive in circles around the outer edge of the pit in order to reach the bottom for a load of coal. From where we stood on one rim, the trucks (which carried 120 tons of coal in each load) looked like small toys across the expanse on the far side of the gigantic man-made depression.
On our drive back to town, my friend pointed toward the distance on the right side of the highway and said "do you see that?" It was nothing but wide open prairie as as is most of the land in that part of Wyoming. "You know what that was?" she asked. "It was an old open pit mine."
I found it hard to believe. The deep hole in the earth was gone with barely a shallow basin remaining. Otherwise it looked exactly like the endless high plains of untouched prairie grasses and prairie flowers all around the restored area.
There are people and companies who specialize in this exact kind of work, land restoration. They've been in business for decades returning mining and drilling operations to their original state. The TMT site is tiny compared to the work they have already accomplished. From what I've seen, they're fully capable of returning a site with a 20 foot deep puka back to it's original state.
“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Is this the same mountain that was being mined by the locals?
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the wound of digging/blasting the rock in order to make the initial puka can't be repaired
Only if that digging/blasting happens in a Designated Sacred Zone.
If the "protectors" had a history of stopping development, I might be able to take them seriously, but it seems they're only interested in projects that cost over $1B.
For comparison: the new Target/Safeway building was only $30M, therefore that land isn't sacred.
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Aloha, kakahiaka all. Dakine, I'm going to the presentation this evening, should be interesting. Also agree that the continued name calling really sucks! I try to show respect to everyone, but that is just my upbringing. Gypsy makes some good points, if one takes the time to understand where he is coming from.
Obie, HOTPE, mahalo for addressing my biggest concern, I get it. However, remain skeptical, given the promises made are not always kept, with regard to "land management" on Mauna Kea.
JMO.
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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
HOTPE - I imagine that's all fine and good for esthetics, but the wound of digging/blasting the rock in order to make the initial puka can't be repaired. Or am I missing something, is there a way to put the rock back together as the lava flow it originally was?
I imagine that to some the esthetics are enough, to them the view is complete. Whereas to others just the thought of the original desecration will be troubling for as long as that thought persist. I suspect the 'trouble' lies in the one point of view (esthetics alone are enough) not being able to appreciate the other more subtle world view. Not having a reference point from which to be empathetic to things they themselves don't experience.
(BBM) Exactly, mahalo.
JMO.
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the initial puka can't be repaired.
dakine, a twenty foot deep hole will be excavated on the northern plain of the mountain. No soil will be removed. When the telescope is decommissioned, the original soil will be returned into what can reasonably be compared to a medium size basement. Will every atom return to it's source? Not to within the exact millimeter, no, but probably a lot closer to their original location than the rocks the protestors disturbed on Mauna Kea last summer.
Have you ever asked any protestors if they made certain to mark the spots from which they took their boulders, itemized the boulders, and matched each one so they could as you said about the TMT, put the rock back together as the lava flow it originally was?
“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
Hawaiian race
Hawaiian "race"? Most of the living Native Hawaiians today are Tahitians, by ancestry. There is nothing genetically distinct and different between Hawaiians and Tahitians. The Polynesians are resisting DNA studies but DNA would show the direct linkage of Native Hawaiians to Tahitians, the Tahitians to the Samoans, the Samoans to the Tongans, the Tongans to the Micronesians, the lineage all the way back to the shores of Indonesia and Taiwan. There was a time not that long ago in the human timeline, that there were no humans on these islands. The migration path to these islands is very clear and becoming more clear over time. There is a Polynesian "race" that has distinct genetic differences from the Native American "race", but even then, they both can be traced back to common Siberian Asian ancestors 25,000 years ago. The Polynesians as a race aren't in any danger of fading away. There are the Tahitian bloodlines that became Hawaiian which are at the end of the line and fading away.
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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Hawaiian "race"?
Weren't (some of) the "Hawaiians" sued to prevent self-organization on the basis that "race cannot be a factor"?
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