No Solar For You

[ericlp]

http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22482

[MarkP]

I have 9 panels and I get by OK except that my 48 volt string of eight 6-volt golf cart batteries is too small. By about 10 am on a good day I am in absorption mode where the charge controller is throttling power. If I had bigger batteries I would be storing more of that power. As it is I try to do laundry during the day. The string of costco batteries costs about $800. A string of the next size up, L16 batteries, is about $2500. I really should go for it.

On Oahu, for commercial customers, they have an interruptible rate. They give you the power cheap with the condition that they can cut you off whenever they need to. I have always thought that that would be a good deal for a hybrid residential system. You build your house with stand-alone solar with batteries. They provide a small electrical service that is very limited in maximum capacity and that doesn't go anywhere except to the point where it hooks to your battery charger. They get to cut you off anytime they want to and your batteries will carry you over those humps which usually occur during the morning and evening peaks. If outages last longer because of storms, etc, well it is what it is and you are less screwed than if you had no batteries. You go into conservation mode then.

HELCO doesn't have such a rate schedule for residential as far as I know other than on Oahu HECO gives you a few dollars break if you let them put a smart breaker on your water heater.

Not sure if this helps the OP but I am relatively happy off-grid.

[TomK]

Kapoho Joe asked - "Aside from impacting profit, what is the reason Helco gives for instituting a cap on solar?"

Seep responded - "Grid stability , which is a legitimate concern- if you have people generating power when and where you don't need it and it's not constant it raises hell with every other part of the system"

A few years ago I noticed that power outages or "glitches" were increasing quite dramatically at UKIRT and sent out a notice to other observatories. They responded and said they were seeing the same thing. After this, the observatories contacted HELCO and asked them to explain what was happening. Their response was that with so many people switching to solar power, the grid had become unstable as they couldn't predict when people would be switching off or onto the grid each day.

I'll be happy to provide the plot, it's quite dramatic, although I gave up keeping track a couple of years ago as the number of "glitches" became so frequent it was taking up too much of my time keeping track of them.

Please don't think I'm defending HELCO, I'm sure the technology exists to prevent this sort of thing and I suspect the problem is a combination of a number of things, including aging infrastructure, but their excuse was an unstable grid caused by solar power users.

[Guest]

If you are going to go off-grid, go off-grid.
If not, then don't.
Trying to have it both ways is complicated on multiple levels.

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You can't fix Samsara.

[ericlp]

quote:

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Originally posted by imagtek

If you are going to go off-grid, go off-grid.
If not, then don't.
Trying to have it both ways is complicated on multiple levels.

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Actually not, if you don't mind paying for the privilege to look at the window and see the wire and meter on the house. That alone is like 30.00 a month, not bad, but, you could go off grid. The best of both worlds is this setup... Since, you could charge up the batteries and never have to worry about Running the batteries into the ground... "KILLING YOUR BATTERIES"...

What you could do, is have helco be your generator (since that is what they are anyway)... They would just top off the batteries keep them at 80-90% float at all times.

When the sun is out in force, the batteries are always charged and topped off, want to stay up late and have that tv/computer running all the time? no problem! Been raining for days and no solar energy getting into the battery bank... No problem!

The key to NOT killing your batteries and making them last 10-15 years is keeping them at and above 75%. Higher the better as battery life cycle is greatly reflected by how far down you drain the batteries.

One other thing... Say, that there were some items that you never wanted your solar to power and couldn't live without... like a microwave/washer/dryer/dishwasher/hairdryer. You could wire up a few circuits in the house that would be powered 100% off of helco.

So... You can have your cake and eat it too ... If planned out and done wisely. Your bill might be 40-50 bucks a month, but no more 150-250 bills every month. Also, no permits, and no expensive grid ties. Can be done!

[Cagary]

The refrigerator is really the only appliance that is going to be on 24/7/365. My wife and I are off grid so we got the most efficient one we could find. Almost all the refrigerators now a days are "Energy Star". Energy Star means a 20% increase in efficiency over US Department of Energy (DOE) mandates.

There is another rating system called CEE. It has 3 "Tiers". Tier 1 equals Energy Star. Tier 2 is 25% more efficient than Energy Star. Tier 3 appliances are 30% more energy efficient than Energy Star.

HD had a Samsung tier 3 on sale so we got one and really like it. It wasn't the cheapest frig at the store, but when I go out to the Power Shed next to my home to check on the solar system and the only appliance that is drawing power is the frig, the meter reading is almost zero.

The microwave is another story. Turn it on and you'll see a huge spike in energy consumption on the meter. The electric dryer? Forget about it. Don't use it. That's what clotheslines are for.

-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".

[EightFingers]

All the paperwork (permits, etc) was sent to me to be signed off. I was in the loop with HELCO at all times. I finally decided it wasn't cost effective and passed on the installation. I'm suprised you didn't know what was happening throughout your process.
If you remove your panels, you should keep in mind your roof will have holes in it that need to be repaired.
The way HELCO explained the reluctance for solar is due to the low capacitance of its relatively small system.

[randomq]

ericlp, I like the way you think! A quick look on Amazon turns this up:
https://www.amazon.com/Power-PICOGLF60W4...B00JFQ5K2S (6000w at $1400, also have 2000w @ $650)

So helco plugs into the charger/inverter via a battery monitoring relay (or a simple switch), the dc side connects to your batteries, which are also connected to your solar array, and the AC side can supply a circuit or a small breaker box in your house. A separate breaker box could supply the helco only side.

Optimal battery size for a 4000w array would be 2 or 3 strings of 8 x 6v golf cart batteries. $1600-$2400 in batteries + say $300 more in cables.

So for as little as $2250 or as much as $4100 + relay/breakers you could be up and running and saving money. Not bad at all. I wonder why more people don't do this?

[Kapoho Joe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Seeb

Grid stability , which is a legitimate concern- if you have people generating power when and where you don't need it and it's not constant it raises hell with every other part of the system

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Isn't it time to start seriously talking about large scale storage solutions for utilities? Or is the tech not there yet?

[Punatic007]

quote:

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Originally posted by randomq

ericlp, I like the way you think! A quick look on Amazon turns this up:
https://www.amazon.com/Power-PICOGLF60W4...B00JFQ5K2S (6000w at $1400, also have 2000w @ $650)

So helco plugs into the charger/inverter via a battery monitoring relay (or a simple switch), the dc side connects to your batteries, which are also connected to your solar array, and the AC side can supply a circuit or a small breaker box in your house. A separate breaker box could supply the helco only side.

Optimal battery size for a 4000w array would be 2 or 3 strings of 8 x 6v golf cart batteries. $1600-$2400 in batteries + say $300 more in cables.

So for as little as $2250 or as much as $4100 + relay/breakers you could be up and running and saving money. Not bad at all. I wonder why more people don't do this?

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I like that option for those who fear being totally off the grid, but much prefer a quiet generator to do the charging. Studies have show the more control you have over your environment and life the less stress you have. I think the trick with solar is to have more panels than batteries to ensure they are topped off regularly.