Ohia trees are dying rapidly, Why?

[EightFingers]

quote:

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Originally posted by Obie

It's too bad that Gyp either deleted his comments, it got archived or it is too old to find but a few years ago he was putting out a theory that PGV was responsible for only boys being born in Leilani .Then his family was blessed with a little girl !

He also posted that his property was ground zero for ROD.

Fricking Fracking idiot !

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Fracking.....should we be expecting more earthquakes now?

[kalakoa]

Here's a crazy idea: what if PGV and ROD are both killing ohia, but they're totally unrelated, merely happening at the same time...

[Midnight Rambler]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

Locals tell me they've seen ROD-like ohia death since 2000 or earlier, up mauka, many miles away from PGV.

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This seems unlikely. Many of the big ohia around Hawaii Volcanoes (especially between Kipuka Puaulu and Kipuka Ki) and at Manuka have been dying since that time, but it's not the same thing. The trees drop their leaves, then sometimes struggle on for a few years with just a few branches alive, before finally dying completely. That's more likely drought-related dieback as those places don't get as much rain and fog as they used to (almost all the hapuu at Manuka have died as well). And actual ROD still isn't in those areas.

[kalakoa]

That sounds more like three separate causes, two of which (drought, ROD) are loosely related (climate change).

[leilanidude]

Puna Geothermal Power plant increases production 8 megawatts in 2011 without having to drill another well by using the Brine component of geothermal fluid "originally unused". How again Exactly did the Puna Geothermal electrical power plant "FINISH enhancing" their production 8MW in 2011 if they did not drill new wells?
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They were not using the full capability of all that super-heated steam/brine to begin with as they had not been permitted to sell more electricity. All they needed was some extra piping and additional turbines.

BTW, I wish you would stop claiming that PGV "uses 4.2 million gallons of water per day". It isn't true. All of the steam/water that comes up the well, is later sent right back down another well (re-injected) so that it can be reheated by the volcano to be used again.

[kalakoa]

more likely drought-related dieback

Drought-related dieback that just happens to occur along pig trails...

[Guest]

update here on our rapid Ohia disease.

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2016/0...ce-called/

We have not seen an Ohia flower around our place in weeks, unfortunately, every remaining Ohia tree looks to be infected. The remaining Ohia trees around here seem to be dying at a slower rate than the first few waves of Ohia trees that more or less burnt up in weeks.

J.B Friday mentioned in the video that they were still looking for something environmentally that may have changed to cause this ROD. From about 2010 to 2014 we had at least one continuously leaking production well at the Geothermal plant location(GROUND ZERO for ROD). Some like Obie would call these often seen leaking gasses in Leilani a natural phenomenon. The gas inundations throughout Leilani have stopped or ceased since the drilling of the new geothermal production well happened just after TS Eselle.

http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections...-test.html

If failed tests were happening back in 2012 why did it take so long for them to drill another production well?

How much production was leaking underground? AND For how long?

looking for environmental changes?

For years, When the leaked geothermal production or gas would rise through the porous soil it would seem to enhance rain before falling back onto the soil. The wind would pick up this laced leaking geothermal production and sweep it through the Ohia Trees almost daily for a few years, between 2010-2014. In the nearby Ohia forests, The largest Ohia trees would start to burn first and subsequently be dead within weeks. jmo.

This past article shares some insight on the puna geothermal venture and the millions and billions being invested by their heavy hitters. Five years later we have over 50,000 acres of dead or dying Ohia and no 35 billion dollar Helco buyout.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/business/h...r-hei-bid/

Mr Ha, who was one of these hired or investing heavy hitters has already moved on to greener pastures by taking the state of Hawaii's MMJ multi-million dollar deal. It would be interesting to hear Mr Ha's version of why this Helco buyout didn't happen as expected.

[HiloPuna]

Gyp,

You may have had this brought to your attention in the past. If so, here's a reminder/refresher. If not, this may help you get a better grip on the world we live in.
Your empirical observations seem to provide you with enough information to both concern and , occasionally ,confuse you. Good luck....

From Wikipedia:

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in statistics to emphasize that a correlation between two variables does not imply that one causes the other.[1][2] Many statistical tests calculate correlation between variables. A few go further, using correlation as a basis for testing a hypothesis of a true causal relationship; examples are the Granger causality test and convergent cross mapping.[clarification needed]

The counter-assumption, that "correlation proves causation," is considered a questionable cause logical fallacy in that two events occurring together are taken to have a cause-and-effect relationship. This fallacy is also known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "with this, therefore because of this," and "false cause." A similar fallacy, that an event that follows another was necessarily a consequence of the first event, is sometimes described as post hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin for "after this, therefore because of this.").

For example, in a widely studied case, numerous epidemiological studies showed that women taking combined hormone replacement therapy (HRT) also had a lower-than-average incidence of coronary heart disease (CHD), leading doctors to propose that HRT was protective against CHD. But randomized controlled trials showed that HRT caused a small but statistically significant increase in risk of CHD. Re-analysis of the data from the epidemiological studies showed that women undertaking HRT were more likely to be from higher socio-economic groups (ABC1), with better-than-average diet and exercise regimens. The use of HRT and decreased incidence of coronary heart disease were coincident effects of a common cause (i.e. the benefits associated with a higher socioeconomic status), rather than a direct cause and effect, as had been supposed.[3]

Here's a link to some graphic representations that illustrate the (likely) fallacies.

https://www.fastcodesign.com/3030529/inf...-causation

http://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=28733

[Obie]

quote:

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Originally posted by gypsy69

Thank you for all your posts back.. We have watched this event very closely for 4 years now, At first we thought must be Geothermal. Possible Fracking since we live 3 miles from the plant. The 120 year old trees started to die first between tangerine acres to Sanfords cinder pits towards Kalapana. Only after a couple years we then noticed the same burn in areas as far as Kapoho, Seaview, even now Paradise Park and Hawaiian acres. So time has started to change our minds on what could be causing the dieback. Previous diebacks 50"s and 70"s were after eruptions on the east rift zone, And this past 3 to 5 years have been active with the fires and lava. The way the trees will burn from top to bottom, or simply fry orange within a month made us think about air problems more than ground? Pulling up some recent area pictures of the Puna coast, we could not believe how much land had been ripped and dozed. Mostly lower Puna, from Hawaiaan Beaches, to Kapoho, Poihiki, along the coast to Seaview. Looks like hundreds if not thousands of acres of new PAPAYA. Geothermal looks small in comparison to the papaya in there back yard. When we have variable winds do these papaya farmers not spray? What would they be spraying? Looks like agent orange the way they are suited for space. Made us think about there upward spray and how it could become airborne. Run off during hard rains in Kapoho, of these hundreds of acres, could it be hazardous to marine life? Anyway sorry for the deep concern and somewhat radicle thinking. go easy and we would appreciate any other perspectives.

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Gyp
Here is a gem from almost 3 years ago.

Part of what you spewed out was this:

"The 120 year old trees started to die first between tangerine acres to Sanfords cinder pits towards Kalapana"

This pretty much proves that geothermal had nothing to do with it, In your own words !

And what happened to the TMT ? I thought they were part of you theory about ROD !

[kalakoa]

Here is a gem from almost 3 years ago.

Meanwhile, "assessment" continues, but I don't see "reforestation" discussed.