Posts: 14,113
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
Everyone living on a dirt road got a big discount on the price of that lot and they need to acknowledge that fact and quit crying.
This principle works in my subdivision: lots are cheap, roads aren't paved, and nobody is representing that pavement will eventually occur if only we pay enough road dues forever.
Emphasis on that last point: no pavement, no maintenance, no dues, no problem.
Posts: 8,463
Threads: 1,032
Joined: May 2003
Home lots in Hilo once had unpaved roads and no electricity or water lines too. They were likely inexpensive also in those days. The county managed to pave them using tax money from the whole island.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 1,084
Threads: 10
Joined: Aug 2016
"Right they did allow variances but that does not make them liable for paving all of these dirt roads.The variances were allowed because the developers didn't have the money to pave and that responsibility was passed on to the future owners of the lots.Everyone living on a dirt road got a big discount on the price of that lot and they need to acknowledge that fact and quit crying."
So many things wrong with this. Developers didn't have the money? These developers were some of the wealthiest people in the state, and they could have easily complied with the rules and passed the costs on to the buyers. Would I be able to get a similar variance because I'm short on cash? Ha ha ha ha ha. It was a sweetheart deal, don't try to pretend that it wasn't.
Also, the point is to get the county to take over the possession and maintenance of the roads, I don't think anyone would expect the county to pave them all. At least I hope people don't have that illusion. The purpose is to get the incompetent associations out of the road business, thus getting rid of the root source of all this fighting, and to remove the liability and additional maintenance created by the general public using these roads.
Posts: 8,463
Threads: 1,032
Joined: May 2003
At the time our massive subdivisions were created, just before statehood, county ordinances required road standards (which were ignored) for all subdivisions of real estate in the county. It was illegal for the county to approve those subdivisions without enforcing the code at the time. This is a huge liability for the county. Why they fight against any and all solutions is another liability.
Meanwhile every gallon of gas consumed in those subdivisions has a tax applied which is solely for maintenance of the roads upon which the tax is derived. This is a state issue.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 14,113
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
I don't think anyone would expect the county to pave them all
A careful read of HCC suggests that County would have no other option: there is no provision for "substandard" roads, even though many exist.
Most subdivision roads cannot ever meet the "minimum standard" 60-foot easement.
Nor do I want pavement, just some occasional gravel/grading, and mow down the shoulders once in a while.
Developers didn't have the money?
County doesn't have the money either?
Would I be able to get a similar variance because I'm short on cash?
Yes, but only if you do it "in the correct way". Haoles need not apply.
Posts: 1,084
Threads: 10
Joined: Aug 2016
Another aspect of this is that there are other situations that are enormously cost prohibitive for the associations. The first one that comes to my mind is the flood river that cuts through HA and OL. The state did some work on 8 rd. and OLCA did some at 39th, but both are inadequate. OLCA has tried many times to get grants, federal or otherwise, to address this problem, but because the roads are "private" (at least on paper) no grants are available. As county roads, options are available for financing. This is a dangerous situation that the developers should also have been required to address before subdividing, but it was ignored.
Posts: 263
Threads: 4
Joined: Sep 2014
[quote]Originally posted by mermaid53
Originally posted by Johnd
[i]....with all due respect, NO, WE DON'T NEED THE FRIGIN BYLAWS, NOR A BOARD THAT CANNOT HANDLE THE ONE TASK THEY HAVE TO MANAGE.
What are you on?
Let me say this, some of us have made important investments in this clownish community, we were duped by everyone from the real estate brokers ,the Association and a County that is not worth shait. Some have been waiting forever to make a small profit and get out, because this is a very badly managed place with no end on sight. I can assure you that some folks are not taking kindly having the fees being raised when the roads are in the miserable shape. The bad news is that it will get more expensive with no added value in return.
This
"Some just want to rant and do nothing, others want to rant and keep coughing up more $$$$ and pouring it into the black hole. What have you done? I haven't seen you at board mtgs. Do you have arrows in your back? Do you have THE solution to all of this? Let's hear it."
Quote
[Quote)]
I better tell you what I don't do, eg: attend meetings with deluded rookies pretending they can manage a several million dollar association. I have better things to do than to entertain useless meetings, and I would kindly suggest you take advantage of the ready availability of kava in our islands.
I have been in HPP probably longer than you have, and I quit those boring and thoroughly useless meetings long ago. It became plenty evident that all those bylaws and unending rotations of Board volunteers were totally incapable to manage a subdivision such as this, but as long we had LOW fees, some road maintanence and a half way decent manager to talk with, we let it go. I have lived long enough in this island to know that one cannot squeeze blood out of turnip!
Having said that, the fees are no longer low, the roads have had 0 maintenence in years and the manager is the worst we had in a long time.
MR.Morris, late report on the mailing I received with the bill states that 24 dollars a month is a bargain(computed on 285 annual fees but not the current 310!). Well I have news for Mr.Morrison, my HOA fee in Arizona is as much per month, except that the fees maintain several state of the art pools, landscape,lights, security,3 parks,two community centers and the cost of a proffessional MANAGEMENT COMPANY. And yes we don't have a road bond like our HPP, which was a total fluke to start with anyway, because the money was siphoned to pave ths road of early Board members who have sold and gone long ago, leaving the rest of us stuck now with a badly structured loan. Moreover, they did not have a clue how to use the money properly and now all those promises to have ALL roads paved was nothing but a con job!
I don't want to hear about your committees, or bylaws rewrites or your personal rantings about a particular Board member, because that is a circular argument that most grown ups ain't buying any longer. Just like I don't care to listen to Randy saying the Board is going to re negotiate the bond! What makes him think we are going to let him do that when they cannot even fulfill their basic responsibilities!
These fools are putting our investments on the line. They have proven to us for the last 7 years that they don't have a bloody clue and lack the skills necessary to manage. On top, now they have the gall to tell us that we have to keep paying up more and more to hide their mismanagement?
If we read the post box proposal it clearly indicates that they expect 150usd from everyone who owns in HPP, and they only need the signatures from just 600 home owners! First of all, the special assessment clause DOES NOT pertain to mailboxes, this is an overreach from this Board of lunatics who think they can do whatever their feeble minds tells them to. This is not any longer a road association, but a full controlling HOA Board: albezias, neighborhood watch, post boxes, etc, etc...everything but maintaining the roads.
I stated my personal SOLUTION many pages ago: the subdivision needs to go into receivership with a Court appointed management company.
Personally, I am not going to keep going out of pocket to pay interest on a bond that did not pave but a few measly roads, let alone to a Board that is UNABLE to mantain our roads. Therefore the options as how to deal with this permanently has been narrowed down considerably.
If we are going to end up paying more, I personally would prefer to have a Court appointed manager and have a transparent retructure that will serve the intended purpose instead of feeding an association managed by a revolving door of unqualified Board volunteers. Do any if you trust your investments to a rooky?,surely not!. Why do we expect a bunch of no matter how well intentioned volunteers manage over two million of
Dollars of revenue? Who is accountable when they fail, leave or don't have a clue? It's our money and properties these people are playing with!
What will it take? Lets start by demanding that the Board disband the office, fire the manager and his crew, put a stop to all that waste of money with the chip seal and retain a proven third party management company to take over the business and retain an independent law firm to renegotiate with the bond holder.
If the Board does not, then a class action suit against the association and its Board members is in order.
jdo
jdo
Posts: 14,113
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
the money was siphoned to pave ths road of early Board members who have sold and gone long ago
Gosh, when you put it that way, it sounds like some kind of scam!
Posts: 263
Threads: 4
Joined: Sep 2014
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
the money was siphoned to pave ths road of early Board members who have sold and gone long ago
Gosh, when you put it that way, it sounds like some kind of scam!
Doesn't it?
jdo
jdo
Posts: 402
Threads: 2
Joined: Jan 2017
Johnd you convey we all need to join efforts working together for a cause that affects all of us while at the same time being abrasive towards neighbors posting here. It's causing the
opposite affect. From what I've been reading on this thread, most are on the same page so let's work together.
|
