03-06-2017, 08:20 AM
These are now the most valuable Shipman leased Ag lands.
...and taxed at $2-3/acre.
...and taxed at $2-3/acre.
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ah, the unintended consequences
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03-06-2017, 08:37 AM
"Mined" is likely the wrong word... but stripped is accurate.
It's fairly accurate Rob. I've watched the cane loading process in fields for three different mills on Maui. I've also seen strip mined coal excavated from the surface in Gillette, Wyoming. The equipment is specific to the material being loaded, but otherwise the process is quite similar. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
03-06-2017, 10:10 AM
The "pooling" by W.H. Shipman was their leasing of the lands - had nothing to do with planting or harvesting the cane. Shipman did not even own stock in the organization - as has been well proved over time. The reason the "washed cane husks" ended up on pahoehoe land in current Shipman farms was simple: Shipman refused to allow Puna Sugar to build their processing plant at the ocean because it would have fouled all of the Puna seashore as happened along the Hamakua coast. Note that if the plant had been makai of the final location the refuse would have followed the shoreline towards Kapoho and Kalapana. W. H. Shipman did not find it agreeable to have any of the Puna coast so fouled and thus disallowed the factory from being there. So Puna Sugar built a system that transported the wash onto pahoehoe land so that Puna Sugar could later plant cane there.
To imply or state, thus, that Shipman mined the land and transported it is not correct. The dirt moved there because of the Puna Sugar hauling and processing. This was all on land leased by American Factors, controlled by the lease by AmFac and operated by AmFac.
03-06-2017, 10:20 AM
Gee Wax,
To listen to you one might think Shipman gave more than they took.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
03-06-2017, 01:41 PM
This is usually the case, when placing these kinds of facilities in the Hawaiian Homesteads on this island, especially along the coastline. You don't see this "crap" near hotels, high end residential areas (ie. Waikoloa, Kona, etc.).
Keaukaha historically had the worst problem with begass (that's what we called it back then) too, along with the stench of the wastewater treatment plant nearby (circa 50's,60's, 70's, etc.). Just more of the same. As to the discussion regarding Shipman, and their lands (again), it is my belief that "smart growth" continues to be foremost in their management style/plan. Not everything is about the almighty dollar, however, there is nothing wrong with making money, while preserving land assets. We all have expenses as land owners, and one can only imagine the carrying/preservation of land ownership costs of Shipman. Good Lord! Since the time of W.H. Shipman, who was a very good, decent, honorable man, Shipman continues to be a pillar in our community. Frankly, I am pleased that one of the oldest ohana on this island, along with the Lyman ohana, still have control of their land holdings. That is rare within itself, in this day and age. God forbid if a "non-resident" entity, (either domestic USA, or international) owned the Shipman lands. I would venture to say, the perspective of an "outsider" would be far less concerned about our community. Maintaining "smart growth" is going to be a challenge for Mayor Kim, as it has been for all past Mayors. The composting facility is just one of many tough issues. As long as Puna gets some of the "improvements" (good ones, not stinky kine...lol) during this session, "unintended consequences" are always part of the equation. JMO. (*Disclaimer: My Kupuna knew the Shipman's well...long before Statehood. It is my belief when you come from "good stock", odds are you maintain the basic morals, values, honor, and dignity that comes from Kupuna.)
03-06-2017, 02:06 PM
Maintaining "smart growth" is going to be a challenge
Where will "smart growth" allow a composting facility to be built? Does "smart growth" include roads to truck everything in from "not near my house"? How much will the "free" mulch cost then? For the bonus round: the styrofoam ban assumes the existence of a facility to process the "alternative" (compostable) food packaging, what happens when there's no facility? All serious questions.
03-06-2017, 02:38 PM
quote:Very good list, kalakoa. Always a pleasure. Here is where the answers, perhaps, will come from...well, at least they should. Please contact: OFFICE OF THE MAYOR Mayor Harry Kim East Hawai‘i: 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 961-8211 | Fax: (808) 961-6553 | TDD: (808) 961-8521 Senator Russell E. Ruderman Senate District 2 Hawaii State Capitol Room 203 phone: 808-586-6890 fax: 808-586-6899 senruderman@capitol.hawaii.gov Representative Joy A. San Buenaventura House District 4 Hawaii State Capitol Room 305 phone: 808-586-6530 fax: 808-586-6531 repsanbuenaventura@Capitol.hawaii.gov And, everyone else who will listen...We deserve better. Have a good evening all, life is short. These kinds of things continue to happen, and we're still here. Thankfully. JMO.
03-06-2017, 02:44 PM
I always listen to what you say opihikao... and do not want to casually cast the Shipman name as ill-intended. But before we idolize the family let me ask you this...
Are not the Shipmans a measurable part of the plantation mentality and greed that gave Puna 80,000+ lots with no roads, no services and no respect? All by bending the then Board of Supervisors to their will and ignoring the laws regarding sub division here? Problems that seem to be intractable? When hundreds of Puna residents put forth their collective energy to write the Puna Community Development Plan over the course of two years - and got it passed at council - was it not Bill Walter of Shipman, in collusion with J Yoshimoto, who got the privilege of personally editing the community plan so it met his personal approval? Was that not a living extension of The Plantation? If I am wrong, please let me know.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
03-06-2017, 02:48 PM
P.S. E kala mai! Forgot Ms. Lorraine Inouye, (past Mayor of Hawaii County):
Senator Lorraine R. Inouye Senate District 4 Hawaii State Capitol Room 210 phone: 808-586-7335 fax: 808-586-7339 seninouye@capitol.hawaii.gov Of note, she is an "old timer" and appears to have quite a lot of influence in her position. From her site, these are the committees she presently sits on: "In the 2017 Legislative Session, Senator Inouye is the Chair of the Senate Transportation and Energy Committee, and is a member of the Water and Land and Ways and Means committees." FWIW. (Pardon the O/T...OK, pau. [  ])
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