ah, the unintended consequences

[bananahead]

fwiw, Shipmans original 70,000 acres, the entire ahupua'a of Kea'au, does NOT include Maku'u Homestead land, it borders it .. the ahupua'a of Kea'au, a rough triangle, starts at Thurston Lava Tube in HVNP, and the other 2 corners are just north of Shipman beach/Ha'ena, and the south edge of HPP. ie all of our Puna subdivisions are within the entire ahupua'a of Kea'au...
see image here, all of the gray and orange was originally Shipman land he got for 28 cents/acre from King Lunalilo in 1881, after buying out a couple partners soon after original purchase...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OnKD4NuUdXc/UG...ners_2.jpg

here is the history of the Ola'a Sugar Company, most of their land was up hwy11 in upper Puna, as you see all the cleared land on both sides of hwy up there, ie all of SKulani Rd, most of NKulani Rd, and the large gap on mauka side of hwy11 when you get past MtView going up Volcano way...
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~speccoll/p_puna.pdf

ps """"Shipman still have control of their land holdings"""" but Shipman only owns 25% of the original land they used to own, down to 17,000 acres today, from the original 70,000 acres in 1881...
roughly same % as the Parker's up north, they own about 25% of their original land today as well, yet are more known for selling off their land than the Shipmans...

aloha


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save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha

[opihikao]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Tucker

I always listen to what you say opihikao... and do not want to casually cast the Shipman name as ill-intended. But before we idolize the family let me ask you this...

Are not the Shipmans a measurable part of the plantation mentality and greed that gave Puna 80,000+ lots with no roads, no services and no respect? All by bending the then Board of Supervisors to their will and ignoring the laws regarding sub division here? Problems that seem to be intractable?

When hundreds of Puna residents put forth their collective energy to write the Puna Community Development Plan over the course of two years - and got it passed at council - was it not Bill Walter of Shipman, in collusion with J Yoshimoto, who got the privilege of personally editing the community plan so it met his personal approval? Was that not a living extension of The Plantation?

If I am wrong, please let me know.

---

Aloha, Sir. I trust all is well with you, and your ohana. Mahalo for this venue for good discussion. You are also a long standing ohana here in Puna, and I hold you in the highest regard.

In response to your questions and comments, which have valid points and concerns, I will respond as follows:

First, if my respect of the Shipman ohana warrants the word "idolize", my apologies for not stating my position more clearly. I added the "disclaimer" due to the long standing relationship between the Shipman ohana and my Kupuna... who I do revere and perhaps "idolize" (after Akua, and Aumakua). I prefer to use the term (not so loosely) "fond aloha" and great respect for the Shipmans, given our ohana history.

All of what you stated is of grave concern today; wasn't so much back then, perhaps. If we look at the big picture, could any of the elected officials at the time predict what Puna is today? That would be a tall order. Not many had the foresight ('ike), nor the fortitude to deal with the "political" aspect of Puna's growth. "Statesmen" are of the past, unfortunately.

Nevertheless, in my opinion, the "blame" lies within the laws that dictate what can, and cannot be done with land. The elected officials today (the past 30 years, especially) continue to approve all permits, from the County, to the State, up to the Federal level (funding).

Shipman is one of many, who must work with the government to achieve their goals as a landowner. The government, via "elected officials", has the final decision. I will reiterate that the Shipman ohana is from here, keiki o ka 'aina, and will have the community from which they hail, given due consideration in their planning. A foreigner, not so much, in my opinion.

The entire General Plan for this County (Moku o Keawe) needs revisiting, Sir. It is time for Puna to reap the benefits of ALL the taxes, land sales, leases, rentals, etc., that the government continues to collect from all of us. Our infrastructure is an abomination. Our public services are miniscule given our growth.

Our recent (over 20 years) elected officials for Puna have very little standing/influence in Oahu, never mind Washington, D.C. At least not enough to be effective. Piecemeal doesn't work anymore; not for Puna.

I look forward to better days ahead, Sir, because we're not going anywhere. What we can contribute to Puna for the greater good, we will. Our ohana has our "marching orders" from Kupuna, as I believe the Shipman ohana has from their Kupuna. We all have our charge, and I am proud to be part of this community, as my ohana has for over 8 generations.

I thank you for the opportunity to express my mana'o, with due respect. Be well, Sir. Mahalo nui.

Mahalo ke Akua, e na Aumakua, e na Kupuna.

JMO.

[wax]

The Shipman Company sold the land in bulk. They did not subdivide nor create the lots nor had - from what history tells - any part of those that did. It was Ag Ranch land sold for ranches. What Watumulls and others did later they did with the guidance of the government - not the Shipman Company. You can blame Shipman if that satisfies you - but then you would be to blame for whatever may happen to what you sell.

[opihikao]

Mahalo, bananahead. Good information, again.

Some land owners are forced to sell lands, in order to preserve other lands...(not saying that is the case in this instance with regard to Shipman). Taxes and expenses to maintain an "ahapua'a", especially since Statehood, are a challenge. I live it.

Our ohana has been forced to sell lands, to maintain what is ours by birthright, due to land (property) taxes.

It's a wonderful country, isn't it?

JMO.

[opihikao]

quote:

---

Originally posted by wax

The Shipman Company sold the land in bulk. They did not subdivide nor create the lots nor had - from what history tells - any part of those that did. It was Ag Ranch land sold for ranches. What Watumulls and others did later they did with the guidance of the government - not the Shipman Company. You can blame Shipman if that satisfies you - but then you would be to blame for whatever may happen to what you sell.

---

Mahalo, wax. There it is. A little more clarity. Yes, indeed, the Watumulls...the old timers (Watamulls) were very good friends with the Sullivans, and other prominent people in that era, as memory would serve. (Kala mai for O/T. Pau.)

JMO.

ETA: typo.

[Rob Tucker]

It is interesting to me that as "hands on" as the Shipman family has historically been they then were "hands off" in the mangled development of their own home district. But maybe so, maybe so.

opihikao, The laws and regulations in the late fifties were quite clearly violated in a number of ways. I did get to talk to Helene Hale about it, she being quite involved at the time. Helen rather freely admitted the rush to sub divide and that it was intended as a scam to bring in tax dollars without providing services. The liability for the county is huge.

[My 2 cents]

"The liability for the county is huge."

Liability, yes. Accountability, no. Not without action on our part.

[randomq]

I volunteer that big empty lot on kua'uli for the new greenwaste facility. Then I can make several trips a day

As to the shady subdividing without services: many of us could not afford to be here if not for that money-grab.

[kalakoa]

Not many had the foresight ('ike), nor the fortitude to deal with the "political" aspect of Puna's growth.

How much "foresight" is required to leave room for the road to be widened?

All the massive subdivisions have been "painted into a corner" simply because there isn't room for more highway.

the Watumulls...the old timers (Watamulls) were very good friends with the Sullivans, and other prominent people

Yes. All these "old-timers" managed to get what they wanted out of the deal. Today we can't have a local corner store, or more than one lane of travel.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

rush to sub divide and that it was intended as a scam to bring in tax dollars

Perhaps it's time East Hawaii subdivisions look into joining forces with the Kingdom of Hawaii. Then, secede from the state and county with the freedom to create their own commercial zoning within the new jurisdiction (and sticking with the OP, their own green waste facility). If nothing else, the prospect of Keaau and Hilo losing their retail grip over us might make them agreeable to a few roads and services.

If the county and state still won't budge, it may be time for the newly formed Kingdom of East Hawaii to set up a model of Las Vegas on one of those vacant 20 acre HPP lots with a mini replica Wynn, Luxor, Ceasar's Palace...

That'll generate funds for some infrastructure and services.

You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.