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Eric1600 - then it is a real irony that Mexico has zero tolerance for those people in Mexico illegally.
This isn't about zero tolerance on immigration. The US allows tens of thousands of immigrants in each year - legally. This is about following the law. If you don't like the law, work to get it changed.
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quote:
Originally posted by leilanidude
This isn't about zero tolerance on immigration. The US allows tens of thousands of immigrants in each year - legally. This is about following the law. If you don't like the law, work to get it changed.
I think it's more than that... we are progressively eroding even the pretense that all are equal under the laws of the country. I am sure that this statement will generate howls of outrage that we are not in fact, and at all times, treated equally under the law - that is clearly an ideal that we have a lot of work to do to actually reach - but nonetheless, it is an ideal that we can aspire to.
We seem to be approaching a mind-set that elected officials, depending on what party they belong to, can decide that one or another group need not be governed by the laws that they find inconvenient. Pretty soon, you have chaos - or anarchy, apartheid, despotism, etc.
And I am not bashing immigrants - as another poster already pointed out, the current system is completely exploitative. Come to America, so we can give you the worst jobs, worst pay, minimum benefits, and MAYBE you'll get to stay....
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Many people these days now think zero tolerance on immigration is a good thing.
Many people seem to display zero tolerance for other human beings in general. I suppose the immigrants shouldn't take it personally.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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we are not in fact, and at all times, treated equally under the law
As an example, will an immigrant receive the same treatment in a court hearing as the CEO of a corporation, or a politician? Would any of us receive the same treatment in a court of law as the CEO? Do we expect to be treated the same in court as a former mayor of an island in the Pacific, when we don't personally know every judge and attorney on the island?
If you have a really good lawyer, you'll receive really fair treatment under the law. Better than fair. Pretty good even.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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My point exactly: when we expect that as the norm, and it doesn't spark outrage, then we have a real problem...
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It seems to be true. One immigration pathway for the rich, another for the poor.
I suspect it has always been so everywhere. Even in Hawaii.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
It seems to be true. One immigration pathway for the rich, another for the poor.
I suspect it has always been so everywhere. Even in Hawaii.
That may be a bit of an over-simplification - any society is more likely to welcome contributors than it is to welcome non-contributors. Money can be a contribution, but possibly the more valuable contribution of those future residents with money, is the capability to develop a business model capable of generating those assets. (I'd also point out that the recent fast-tracking of resident visas requires a $500K investment in a US business - allowing that contribution to benefit all affiliated with those businesses - and generating tax revenue).
Which would you rather have (and is more likely to be able to "buy" citizenship): a mafia Don/cartel boss, or a Chinese entrepreneur? Likewise, which is more likely to get in: a poor but brilliant engineer/scientist/architect, or a poor day laborer? I spent two years getting a green card for a very capable young scientist who wanted to work and live in the US. We did it legally and he is a contributing member of our population.
Money isn't the only consideration - it would be unfortunate if it was. At the same time, a completely open door with no vetting and review, isn't as likely to benefit the society as a whole...
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Eric1600 - then it is a real irony that Mexico has zero tolerance for those people in Mexico illegally.
This isn't about zero tolerance on immigration. The US allows tens of thousands of immigrants in each year - legally. This is about following the law. If you don't like the law, work to get it changed.
I've lived in multiple different countries, several are the poorest in the Northern hemisphere. I know how Mexico handles illegal immigration and I can personally tell you it isn't zero tolerance. They have in the past decade, due to pressure from the US, been more aggressive in trying to stop other central American citizens from crossing their southern border. And in general they also exploit them on farms and don't provide a path to citizenship either and illegal immigration there is a felony rather than a misdemeanor in the US. They used to just look the other way as long as they kept going to the US. I'm not sure why you'd want to compare their policies to the US because the US was founded on a different set of philosophies than Mexico, and many other nations when it comes to immigrants.
As I've been trying to point out that if you're poor, there's pretty much no path to legal immigration. I also posted a list of reasons why this is systemic problem that benefits those who lobby for this situation. However as the scale starts to tip more and more towards zero tolerance it will bite these people because the black market will dry up and we'll mostly be left with just the criminals rather than the hard working immigrants who are building better lives here.
Money isn't the only consideration - it would be unfortunate if it was.
I can tell you I've personally assisted about a dozen poor people in trying to get a work visa in the US and all of them were denied with no reason given and a suggestion to just apply again in a year. I have also applied for many H1-B visas for engineers (in my previous life) and never had any of them turned down.
I also have friends that acquired green cards and went on to become citizens. They were all ones with an American spouse (or a business that went H1-b to green card to citizen) who helped and supported them while they waited during their long trial period where they are not permitted to work or leave the country. Money makes all the difference from my personal experiences.
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For generations the bulk of immigration into Hawaii was operated by the large landowners. The Five Families were the heart of it all. They needed cheap labor and got it on their terms. On the mainland it is largely the same with corporate interests.
None of your complaints about illegal immigration will be solved until Big Business, here in Hawaii and on the mainland, want it solved. Until that moment it is primarily just an issue to divide us and distract us.
Reminds me of what Linda Lingle's Big Island rep explained to me..... the way they deal with Puna is to get everyone arguing and simply walk away.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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Palanakonu - things have changed recently. Now you have to show proof of Hawaii residency, before that was not necessary.
I'm not sure what else you have to show now, you probably know better than me!
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