2014-2015 -- 56% of Big Island Coral Died

[leo]

False. This has been proven over and over. There was no radiation here from Japan!

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/fuk...ific-ocean

[glinda]

quote:

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Originally posted by Eric1600

As for Hawaii's fish, University of Hawaii researchers compiled data for 15 years and found a 90 percent decline in overall catch from the last 100 years, which includes fish such as ulua, moi and oio.

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Yes, but we don't give a crap about that! We are way more interested in our TMT! Right team?

Come on Paul, squeal a little more. We all love it when you do.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

quote:

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Originally posted by glinda

quote:

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Originally posted by Eric1600

As for Hawaii's fish, University of Hawaii researchers compiled data for 15 years and found a 90 percent decline in overall catch from the last 100 years, which includes fish such as ulua, moi and oio.

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Yes, but we don't give a crap about that! We are way more interested in our TMT! Right team?

Come on Paul, squeal a little more. We all love it when you do.

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What does the TMT (nearly 14,000 feet above the sea) have to do with coral reefs (which are under water, below sea level)?

“Facts fall from the poetic observer as ripe seeds.” -Henry Thoreau

[rainyjim]

I've heard about that kalakoa and it certainly is unfortunate. To clarify when I wrote foreign fishermen I was referring to boats owned and operated by foreigners not American boats employing foreign fishermen as seasonal workers.

[PaulW]

Glindakine, you really are completely clueless if you think that a) money destined for a telescope by a group of countries can somehow be redirected to stop global warming or b) it would make a lick of difference.

As long as there is no political will, nothing will change. Meanwhile, science, no doubt, will be coming to the rescue.

[kalakoa]

boats owned and operated by foreigners not American boats employing foreign fishermen as seasonal workers

Issues are closely related; without cheap foreign labor, costs would rise enough to naturally limit the overfishing.

As long as there is no political will, nothing will change.

Correct -- and a big piece of the problem is that almost every industry gets indirect subsidies in the form of unrecaptured externalized costs. Case in point: the fishing industry enjoys a big magic loophole exempting it from Federal regulations, which is why it can exploit cheap laborers that aren't even "lawfully admitted" to the US.

[Lodestone]

quote:

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Originally posted by leo

False. This has been proven over and over. There was no radiation here from Japan!

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/fuk...ific-ocean

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There is SOME radioactive material from Japan in our waters, but not enough to worry over. Per the article you posted:

Although just barely discernible by our most sophisticated instruments, these signs, and the many more signs from samples we’ve collected on both sides of the Pacific, show that releases have continued, but that at current rates, it would take 5,000 years to equal the amount of cesium released in the accident’s first few months. Despite this, the fact remains that this event is unprecedented in its total release of radioactive contamination into the ocean. Nevertheless, we often struggle to detect signals from Fukushima above the background radiation that surrounds us every day.

So, radiation, yes; but enough for us to detect, no. Why? Cuz the Pacific Ocean is really really really really really really BIG.

[geochem]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

boats owned and operated by foreigners not American boats employing foreign fishermen as seasonal workers

Issues are closely related; without cheap foreign labor, costs would rise enough to naturally limit the overfishing.

As long as there is no political will, nothing will change.

Correct -- and a big piece of the problem is that almost every industry gets indirect subsidies in the form of unrecaptured externalized costs. Case in point: the fishing industry enjoys a big magic loophole exempting it from Federal regulations, which is why it can exploit cheap laborers that aren't even "lawfully admitted" to the US.

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I disagree on several points in this narrative:
Loss of "cheap" labor would not limit over fishing the resource, simply concentrate that over fishing into foreign fleets. Current Federal loopholes simply allow some of that over fishing product into the Hawaii market.

You characterize the employment of, otherwise unemployed, foreign workers - who are now able to support their families - as exploitation. They have accepted these jobs freely, as superior to the job opportunities that they would otherwise have.

A great deal of this narrative is, I believe, driven by unionized maritime workers who would much prefer that this industry go away, than provide competition to unionized fishing vessels.

If successful, expect that the cost of US based, wild caught seafood will substantially increase as will importation of seafood from third world countries where the industry will be welcomed as an economic asset.

[kalakoa]

You characterize the employment of, otherwise unemployed, foreign workers - who are now able to support their families - as exploitation.

While it is entirely possible that the workers are being exploited -- someone should ask them how they feel about this -- the bigger problem is that the industry is exploiting loopholes to unfairly compete in the market: they don't have to pay minimum wage, or unemployment or worker's comp, or provide health insurance. How is that fair?

If it's okay to skip all the regulations "because offshore", then where's our exemption from the Jones Act? Freight barges are "offshore" too right?

[DanielP]

"Fisherman's Rights" REALLY? Perhaps Fishermen have the right to learn to understand how sustainable fishing works