12-03-2017, 09:21 AM
@hopte - I have seen teachers try their best to teach, only to have one or two students disrupt the lesson.
dollers fix this?
dollers fix this?
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Hawaii Public Schools & Teacher Salaries
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12-03-2017, 09:27 AM
quote: False info... I guess I need to make another FOI request and post the results here, again. It will take a while, because they resist providing the info. The majority of the teachers in Pahoa are making over $75k and they don't have anywhere near your mythical 43+ years on the job. A surprising number are right at $100k. Don't believe the unions numbers.
12-03-2017, 10:08 AM
"being a devils advocate .....would the inverse hold true for Maui where the income demographics are the opposite of the Big Island?"
I love the concept of the position of the devil's advocate: (wiki) "Origin and history During the canonization process employed by the Roman Catholic Church, the Promoter of the Faith (Latin: promotor fidei), popularly known as the Devil's advocate (Latin: advocatus diaboli), was a canon lawyer appointed by Church authorities to argue against the canonization of a candidate.[3] It was this person’s job to take a skeptical view of the candidate's character, to look for holes in the evidence, to argue that any miracles attributed to the candidate were fraudulent, and so on. The Devil's advocate opposed God's advocate (Latin: advocatus Dei; also known as the Promoter of the Cause), whose task was to make the argument in favor of canonization. During the investigation of a cause, this task is now performed by the Promoter of Justice (promotor iustitiae), who is in charge of examining the accuracy of the inquiry on the saintliness of the candidate.[4] The Promoter of the Faith remains a figure in the Congregation of the Causes of Saints and is also known as the Prelate Theologian.[5] The office was established in 1587 during the reign of Pope Sixtus V. The first formal mention of such an officer is found in the canonization of St. Lawrence Justinian under Pope Leo X (1513–21).[6] Pope John Paul II reduced the power and changed the role of the office in 1983.[7] This reform changed the canonization process considerably, helping John Paul II to usher in an unprecedented number of elevations: nearly 500 individuals were canonized and over 1,300 were beatified during his tenure as Pope as compared to only 98 canonizations by all his 20th-century predecessors. In cases of controversy the Vatican may still seek to informally solicit the testimony of critics of a candidate for canonization." But to get back to your question, when my daughter was a student at Keaau HS, the only calculus course available to her was via Skype with the Maui class. I don't know if that has to do with economics, population, or some other reason, but the Skype thing didn't work out for her because it was like watching a recording of a HS calculus course on a crappy internet connection. She eventually got permission from the school to learn calculus from watching youtube... we joked about getting a bumper sticker that said "Hawaii County Public Schools: Almost as good as Youtube" Your tax dollars at work. ETA: italics
12-03-2017, 10:23 AM
Yes, Unions lie about teaching salaries when the information is publicly available. Sure, I mean sure, there's a huge teacher shortage because the pay is so great and no one wants to live in Hawaii.
Anyway Hawaii is especially vulnerable to the GOP tax restructuring plan because the education system comes from the State's General Fund. This is abnormal as most states pay for schools from property tax. However due to Hawaii's history of rich land owners not wanting to pay taxes and hoping to keep the population uneducated and in the fields they structured the education funds in a very different manor - not based on property which would effect them the most. So there's two big problems with the tax restructuring plan from the GOP. First is the lack of state deductions and secondly is taxing student endowments as income. The second one seems especially cruel, even for the GOP. The first is the biggest problem to Hawaii though is still up in the air because the house and senate bills have not been reconciled. There are several provisions in both pieces of legislation [house bill vs senate bill] that would take serious aim at K-12 education at the state and local funding levels. Reporters and editorials have stressed that eliminating the deductions for state and local taxes (SALT) including property taxes, as in the Senate bill, will heavily impact Democratic leaning states with higher tax burdens, but the Governmental Finance Officers Association (GFOA) reports that eliminating SALT deductions from the tax code will have a broadly negative impact on tax payers in all states. According to the GFOA findings: * 30% of tax units use the SALT deduction. * 60% of deductions for earners under $50,000 a year come from property taxes and the loss of the deduction would negatively impact home ownership and price stability. * 30% of earners between $50,000 and $75,000 a year use the SALT deduction. 53% of earners between $75,000 and $100,000 a year use it. * Income earners at all levels would see their taxes go up if the SALT deduction is eliminated. More importantly from a public school perspective: the loss of the SALT deduction would apply significant pressure on states and municipalities to reduce taxes in order to offset the increases in federal taxes paid by their constituents. Using the 8th Congressional District in Texas north of Houston as a model, the GFOA estimates that the district would see an increase in federal taxes of $306 million dollars. Offsetting that with state and local tax decreases could impact $125 million in school funding. Simply put: education funding is an enormous local and state expenditure, and it would have to be cut in order to provide any relief to tax payers who lost SALT. https://www.gfoa.org/sites/default/files...202017.pdf This is a good illustration of the GOP "starve the beast" philosophy which will probably force the state to find ways to reduce the tax burden and this is often reconciled by cutting public programs first -- parks, libraries, schools. It's a tired old cycle that hurts the future of this country.
12-03-2017, 10:25 AM
quote: Pahoa would be quite the outlier then, with many long toothed teachers, because the annual mean salary for a secondary teacher in Hawaii is not something guarded and lied about by teacher's unions, it's a matter of record complied and published by the feds. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_hi.htm#25-0000 (58K) But I believe you're just wrong, or perhaps including other calculated benefits besides salary.
12-03-2017, 10:47 AM
quote: Sounds interesting. Did it give a cash value for benefits as well? I look forward to seeing it. I wonder if it includes admin, the dreaded middle management, and all the other higher ups who don’t have any students in its report. Can you link to your previous post that had the older FOI info? The updated info would likely be higher so your point would be made. A friend of mine jokes that teacher salaries should start at $100k and go down a few thousand each year, so that some of the best and brightest would consider teaching for a while—and the burnouts wouldn’t stick with it. A true voucher program would be much less expensive than the current system and lead to more improvement, methinks, but I’ve already posted too many times about that. My take home pay as a 30 year teacher (16 in Hawaii), dual certified in SPED and elementary ed, with some twenty credits beyond a MS degree will be under $42k this year which includes some of the recent raises. Deductions include the normal fed and state taxes and about $540/month for medical (an incredible deal for a family plan I know). And $66.58 a month to the union so they can buy politicians and buildings.  And just recently my charter school’s teachers got a $3k annual bonus (a little more than $2k after taxes) for being in a “hard-to-fill” zone— which other local schools’ teachers have received for years.I feel, given the 185 workdays per year, that this is a more than a fair salary. My wife and many teachers disagree. If big money was more of a goal for me (or I lived in Honolulu) I would do something else. I agree with Frank that more money will have absolutely nothing to do with solving discipline issues in the classroom. HotPE: “If you think Hawaii public schools are bad now, wait until/if the Republican tax bill passes” I don’t know much about republican tax bills, but I suspect there is no correlation with the clustfusk that is Hawaii public schools’ success or failure. Indeed, the only constitutional way the feds can tell any state anything about education is to tie compliance to title one+ money. (Reminds me of Jimmy Carter’s national 55mph speed limit dealio way back when: states don’t have to comply but the feds will withhold road money’s if you don’t.) Reasonable people disagree about this stuff all the time, but holding the opinion that the federal (and most states’) government has gotten too big for its britches, is largely ineffective, and not in important ways accountable—well the opinions can’t even be expressed before one is considered to be some sort of Tea Party idiot. But the idea that “government” is the solution to the problems of public schools always takes me aback, so to speak. Almost to the point of coming up with a new fangled logical fallacy label. Still working on that though... Why the federal government has a Dept of Education is as mysterious to me as how the county Office of Aging and Office of Housing and Community Development could possibly be big enough to need a former Safeway store. Not newly as mysterious as how a tree can give up so many lovely avocados, but mysterious nonetheless. Cheer, Kirt 
12-03-2017, 10:58 AM
Thanks Eric1600 & knieft, well stated.
I would like to add that if you're looking at the position of "teacher" from the perspective of your school days 20 or 40 years ago, you don't have an entirely accurate picture of what present day teachers encounter on a daily basis. I've had limited exposure myself (I'm not a teacher) but from what little I have seen, I wouldn't sign up for the job even at $150,000 a year. "Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
12-03-2017, 03:24 PM
Can you link to your previous post that had the older FOI info?
kneift, I did a Punaweb search for leilanidude's FOI research, first with the term FOI and found nothing except today's post, then with the term teacher. The only info he had written about teacher saleries were two posts in which he claimed there are no junker cars in teacher parking lots, from which he extrapolated his estimate that therefore they must earn at least $80,000 a year. Based on his parking lot research, and I assume Kelly Blue Book? So as someone said earlier in this thread, FALSE! "Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
12-03-2017, 06:30 PM
He is employing "whataboutism" to distract from the topic. And he's ridiculously wrong. Here's the State's Teachers' Salary schedule for 2017-2018 https://www.hawaiipublicschools.org/DOE%...h17-18.pdf as published by the DOE who worked with the union to set rates.
The real issue at hand is how to stop Congress during the reconciliation process so we don't loose the education funds (or ACA or drill oil in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge or declare fetuses legally people at conception -- yes all those things were jammed into the tax bill they spent 2 hours reviewing). |
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