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In case there's confusion over the recent change of the board treasurer seat....
At the beginning of this board's term in July 2017, Dist 8 was appt'd as treasurer by a majority vote of his board peers. The treasurer is automatically the Finance Committee chair per our bylaws. At the Jan 2018 board mtg, the treasurer was replaced by Dist 7 rep, who is VERY qualified to lead the FC....
Our bylaws state that a membership committee can remove a committee member or their chair by a majority vote of committee members w/out cause.
The Finance Committee (FC) is a membership committee but is unique in that the chair as stated in the bylaws, is the board Treasurer. Whereas in other membership committees, the committee votes for their own chair. The FC requested the board replace their chair (the treasurer) after the FC had a unanimous vote of No Confidence. It would be up to the board to replace the FC chair/Treasurer since the FC can't. Vote of No confidence bc they felt he wasn't committed; he didn't want to attend regularly scheduled mtgs, and most importantly wouldn't provide necessary financial info for the monthly FC mtgs so they could do their job for the membership.
This came up for discussion at the Jan 2018 board mtg. There was a 1st and 2nd motion to replace the treasurer, and during discussion, Dist 8 wanted to hurry the process along and voted to have himself replaced as treasurer...No votes were Dist 1, 2 and 6. Dist 8 rep was first to motion that Dist 7 rep replace him as treasurer. The No votes were Dist 1, 2 and 6.
Since CCrelly's appointment to fill the Dist 3 vacant seat, which occurred later in that same meeting, they now have a solid majority 5 vote to complete their agendas; 1) stop transparency and the forensic analysis; 2) protect and support the GM no matter what 3) Replace the board president and treasurer seats w/their own kind.
Dist 7 rep was only a week into being the new treasurer, before maneuvers began w/the first "special exec session mtg" to depose her and Dist 5 rep, which failed bc they didn't follow proper procedures in calling that meeting and the agenda was vague, and changed at least twice. Their 2nd attempt is this Friday at 6 PM to depose our current board president and treasurer.
Reminder: The 2 contracts, also mentioned in Eric1600's post were not seen by the FC for over 2 yrs. Dist 5, 7 and 9 reps have been doing their due diligence in getting the FC the financial info they're entitled to = transparency. After reviewing the contracts for the first time, the FC recommended the board stop doing business with them due to lack of proper licenses and insurances. Also discovered were both contracts were signed by the GM (against our bylaws and policies). These actions occurred under CCrelly's presidency. The shutting down of these 2 contracts and not doing further business w/these people were very upsetting to some reps. Dist 5 and 7 reps are doing their jobs to represent HPP, so they need to be replaced.
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Thanks for the additional information. I just have a bone to pick.
Dist 2 rep wants the mailboxes no matter what. She claims that all those that voted No are people who have mailboxes already, which is totally false. Despite the overwhelming # of No votes, she's forging ahead saying the Memberships votes don't matter. There is no land they can use for the mailboxes as HPP's 20 acre lots can only be used for parks and schools. The board can't assess members for mailbox $$$ as there are no bylaw provisions that allows this. If the board officer makeup changes, I believe she will actively forge ahead.
The resignation of a mailbox committee person occurred after the mailbox project blew up in their faces and angry members came forward. There was no board approval to assess the membership $$$ for mailboxes and attach late fees if not paid by such and such a date. There was no board approval to spend $$$ for the printing of the flyers inserted in our billings, nor board
Ok. So here's a problem that illustrates HPP's community issues. There's no way to verify what you say, but I believe it. However there's no records of anything. All I can tell you is everyone I know voted for it because none of them have mailboxes, those that told me later they were against it...well guess what they have boxes. (I also feel this applies to paved road people vs dirt road people, but that's another subject.)
Secondly where did all these mailboxes that are here come from to start with? Wouldn't they have violated the bylaws at some point? Were fees collected? Why can't I get one too? I'll send a check today.
And lastly, having mail is a basic service. I know some people on punaweb poo-poo it as "antiquated" and "don't move my mailbox because I like to walk to it", but come on people think of the community. Yes it takes some property, but let's be realistic. All that land is probably never going to be 100% parks and schools. We need to adapt a little to the changing issues.
So yeah, perhaps the bylaws then should really be enforced and all the mailboxes removed then because they must have cost something at some point, and it's not a road. Or perhaps we should just do the right thing and allow everyone access to the same services. What it devolved into was a petty argument and attacking people. If I recall correctly the person proposing the mailboxes was so harassed they left Hawaii.
Bottom line: I feel a community run HPPOA is a mistake. They have obviously proved over decades that without a doubt private unqualified citizens can not manage such a large complex financial endeavor. Too many people don't have the time, stamina or drive to follow all the hidden actions of the HPPOA and hold them accountable. And the noise levels are so high that most sane people just pay their dues and ignore the drama because the truth is so obscured.
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Eric, I bought my land in the early 80’s and I got a mailbox, free from USPS, Kea’au. At that time there were lots more mailboxes than residents.
HPPOA, which was Paradise Hui Hanaliki at the time, had nothing to do with getting a box.
And, nobody I know is against people without mailboxes getting one. It is just that it is not within the powers of HPPOA to charge us for anything but Road Maintenance. They not only charged us for it, but threatened a fine if we didn’t pay up.
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Were they really free? I'm sure there was some cost involved in installing and paving.
Anyway, everyone would need to pitch in for a new mail box center and you just illustrated my point that it's something you don't want to pay for because you already have one.
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Yes, really free. All you had to do was own land here and they gave us the keys and P.O. box #. They were already installed when we got here.
Illustrate your point? Not so much.
I have no objection to everybody having a mailbox who wants one.
I do object to HPPOA billing me for anything but roads.
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BYW, the area around the mailboxes was not paved. It was really uneven ground. I broke an ankle there once. Years later, somebody paved.
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Not wishing to get into the voting discussion, but just wanted to confirm Kenney's post. Yes, the original PO boxes were free when HPP was a lot less populated and it was all done via the USPS. There was obviously a cost installing the boxes in the first place, I assume it was paid for by the feds, but back then, if boxes were available, they were (and still are) free. You just needed proof you were living in HPP.
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TomK
I have tried to explain all of the ins and outs of mailboxes !
No one listens !
Why don't you meet me down in Vacationland some day and I can show at least one person from HPP what we did and I can explain it in person .
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Obie - I'd be happy to meet you down there, let's set it up one day soon. What I don't want to do, however, is then become so involved in HPP politics to have to get involved any more than I am. But yes, would love to meet you!
If you want to drop me a line, click on my profile which will then lead to my old blog. My personal email address is in the profile section of the blog. Or just visit the UKIRT site and you can find my work email.
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Ok. So here's a problem that illustrates HPP's community issues. There's no way to verify what you say, but I believe it. However there's no records of anything. All I can tell you is everyone I know voted for it because none of them have mailboxes, those that told me later they were against it...well guess what they have boxes. (I also feel this applies to paved road people vs dirt road people, but that's another subject.)
If you go read the Mailbox Committee info in the board minutes in the fall of 2016 you'll see that there was no board approval of the things I mentioned. My information also comes by way of attending a lot of these meetings. There was a morning "special board mtg" after the board got hit w/lots of member complaints. A sort of "regrouping" after the you know what hit the fan about the mailbox assessments. They knew they had to address this at the upcoming membership mtg. Tensions were high between the 3 members on the mailbox committee. Who was on the mailbox committee is in the minutes and they all live in HPP and 2 are on the current board, Dist 2 and 6 reps.
Eric if you go to the HPP Mailbox thread, you'll find posts where people sd they'd be willing to pay for mailboxes once the roads and easements were taken care of, but not until then. They lost trust in the board taking more $$$. And most people saw there was no real plan in place before trying to get $$$. Cart before the horse.
Secondly where did all these mailboxes that are here come from to start with? Wouldn't they have violated the bylaws at some point? Were fees collected? Why can't I get one too? I'll send a check today.
And lastly, having mail is a basic service. I know some people on punaweb poo-poo it as "antiquated" and "don't move my mailbox because I like to walk to it", but come on people think of the community. Yes it takes some property, but let's be realistic. All that land is probably never going to be 100% parks and schools. We need to adapt a little to the changing issues.
The 20 acres would have to be rezoned. You can thank the developer Watamull for our predicament. Their 20 acre lots can be used for community development. They pay 1 road fee for 20 acres too.
Regarding mail service...I heard just recently that another option that should be looked into, a "novel" idea....is to get mail delivered to our lots. Everyone should have access to getting their mail delivered. What about those who can no longer drive to pick up their mail? I heard someone was researching this angle and Dist 2 rep is focused on cluster boxes.
So yeah, perhaps the bylaws then should really be enforced and all the mailboxes removed then because they must have cost something at some point, and it's not a road. Or perhaps we should just do the right thing and allow everyone access to the same services. What it devolved into was a petty argument and attacking people. If I recall correctly the person proposing the mailboxes was so harassed they left Hawaii.
There were 3 people on the mailbox committee as stated above. No one moved away over it. The only person I can think of was the president at the time who resigned shortly after. The mailbox issue happened under her watch. She was board president for a couple of months only and she moved away but posts on HPP FB all the time
Bottom line: I feel a community run HPPOA is a mistake. They have obviously proved over decades that without a doubt private unqualified citizens can not manage such a large complex financial endeavor. Too many people don't have the time, stamina or drive to follow all the hidden actions of the HPPOA and hold them accountable. And the noise levels are so high that most sane people just pay their dues and ignore the drama because the truth is so obscured.
I was told there was a lot of chatter on HPP Facebook about property mgmt from those that feel the same way.
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