Posts: 10,212
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
Fact - there are some places that have banned or are planning to ban Roundup or at least the chemical it uses. EW was completely right about that.
Fact - there is no scientific consensus on whether glysophate causes cancer. That statement is true as far as I know but will be happy to change my opinion when a study is produced that actually shows significant statistical evidence and then replicated by other studies.
This is why you need independent research which isn't funded by companies who have an interest in the results combined with some of the more ridiculous medical studies you see in the media that rely on the results of testing a dozen or so people.
Hawaii is in a unique position here. We have a pretty good university with lots of researchers attracted to the unique opportunities the islands have for research. But pandering politicians, the boy's club and small but vocal minorities will make sure it never happens.
Posts: 1,175
Threads: 12
Joined: Jun 2008
TomK @01:33:31 07/07/2018-
Couldn't agree more on all counts.[
]
Posts: 56
Threads: 21
Joined: Feb 2010
Reading the last several posts in this thread
the conclusions drawn are:
-if a product is being used extensively, it is safe and all the testing prior to product being released proved it is safe to use.
-Since Science and Nature and general media are not reporting that studies have found it to be unsafe, then there is nothing to worry about.
-This product is preventing world hunger ( which maybe it is since the number of people dying from its use mean that there are less useless eaters- I'm being facetious so no need to respond to this comment)
-Several countries have expressed concerns and are investigating this chemical further BUT because the OP posted his/her list incorrectly, we need to harangue him/her in order to demonize what is being said about Roundup so that we miss the points being made about safety and get caught up in emotion about providing references ( which are always needed to back up claims)
Here's a few more claims to ponder
People on this forum that are espousing the safety of roundup work for Monsanto/ Bayer. ( not saying this is the case but it could definitely be relevant).
Studies that have proven Roundups safety were fraudulent because Monsanto paid off the scientists to find what Monsanto wanted them to find
The government ok'd Roundup
use because...same as above .
In 1994 or 1995: an opiate drug called oxycodone was released with the claim that it could be safely used as it didn't cause addiction. Therefore doctors took this to be true and tested : they prescribed oxycodone in tons. Why not use it, people were in pain and this new drug was safe.
We now know the real story.....the drug company making oxycodone LIED. People have died and we now have a public health crisis. Why wasn't this foreseen? why didn't people ask the questions?
Trust science to find the answers: sadly no longer the case when science can be easily manipulated by money, prestige, lying, ....
Posts: 1,674
Threads: 81
Joined: Aug 2014
Okay breathe.... trying to be Zen here as obviously I am very passionate about this topic. And yes I can and WILL ignore those posts from certain individuals from now on. I just won't respond to such posters anymore.
Very well stated MBB.
Facts we do know:
1)No proof yet that Roundup has caused any of these diseases that the plaintiffs are claiming.
2)Many countries are in some process of banning the product or have banned it.
Whether or not Sri-Lanka, Bermuda, etc has reversed such bans are irrelevant. What is relevant is the quantity of people involved internationally, attempting to or creating the ban. The alarm is: why so many bans or attempts at bans for a product deemed safe for the public to use??
Is there anything comparable to this Roundup product (in terms of a product this wold-widespread and commonly used that has had attempts of banning it)?
As far as for products claimed safe by our government and then later the officials saying, "whoops, we were wrong, that product that was once deemed safe now isn't. It's actually quite deadly." I talked about all the other chemicals and pesticides pulled from our shelves over the years. Notorious ones like agent-orange etc.
The oxycodone example used by MBB works well to prove this point too.
Posts: 1,442
Threads: 12
Joined: Oct 2016
quote:
Originally posted by terracore
Yet glass containers are the "safer alternative" to anything lined with BPA?
But people have a choice as to what kind of container they can use, right?
Exposure to herbicides/pesticides, not quite so much. In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, Glyphosate is also a suspect in kidney and liver problems, alzheimer's and parkinson's.
Posts: 1,120
Threads: 57
Joined: Mar 2013
"Is there anything comparable to this Roundup product (in terms of a product this wold-widespread and commonly used that has had attempts of banning it)?"
It is reasonable to suspect that Roundup might be problematic. And that many other chemicals might harm us. This interesting link says only 9 out of thousands of chemicals have been banned.
http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-only-...als-2016-2
Negative impacts of chemicals can be obscure; things like increased cancer rates or affecting hormone production. Endocrine disruptors.
https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/.../index.cfm
Cause and effect can be hard to demonstrate. You might get cancer in any event. If you do, is the chemical at fault?
Thus far the case that Roundup is harmful is inconclusive (though some assert otherwise.) Maybe it is better to say that the harmful effects of Roundup are contested.
- - - -
This thread would have been better with a less assertive headline, such as
Increasing evidence that Roundup causes cancer or
Nations increasingly banning Roundup: Health fears
- - - -
Hey Rob, can you expand the text allowed for headlines?? I think 10-12 more characters will fit in the allocated space on the index page. Headlines are important.
Posts: 1,975
Threads: 47
Joined: Jul 2012
Tom makes great points ...
As far as bans are concerned (causation #8800; correlation) just because something is banned is zero reason to suspect it might cause cancer.
Posts: 1,674
Threads: 81
Joined: Aug 2014
MarkD said: "This thread would have been better with a less assertive headline, such as Increasing evidence that Roundup causes cancer or Nations increasingly banning Roundup: Health fears"
Done deal, title changed. (? added)
One thing that gets me thinking here is:
Are there any hidden agendas?
I mean besides the fact that;
1) Monsanto/Bayer has tons of money and there are countless bloodsucking layers out there?
I found myself laughing at my own thoughts because they seem absurd but here's my second idea for hidden agendas.
2) health food/ organic food mafia. Yeah sounds crazy but in this world I cannot rule it out. Organizations looking to push their own products whatever they may be.
Which leads to my third idea for hidden agendas.
3) Some other chemical company looking to push their own herbicide that is less controversial than Roundup.
Posts: 1,674
Threads: 81
Joined: Aug 2014
Also, very interesting links Mark.
I really appreciate the picture of #5 Hexavalant Chromium. It's gorgeous!! [:p]
Also I thought #4, Asbestos was something found in nature. Not a chemical created by man in a lab.
Posts: 1,120
Threads: 57
Joined: Mar 2013
There is one primary agenda and it relates to the all powerful, ever present God so many of us worship: PROFIT
(But the flip side of the coin is that all these products and chemicals created by man make the world a better place. And indeed they generally do.)
