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HotPE, thanks for that Mark Twain excerpt. I had no idea that Hawaii invented "The Purge"!
While I generally support some social welfare programs (at least until we have enough free energy and automation to reach a "post-scarcity" world, or even just a real economy in Hawaii) it is interesting to think about how it acts as a perverse incentive:
- You can move away from your family support system and still be provided housing and food. This could be good (escaping a bad home situation) or bad (growing up without role models, economic and food support, reducing available housing)
- You don't have to rely on a church to feed or house you (also good if you're atheist/agnostic like me, but maybe bad for people that need the structure of religion in their lives)
- You can do nothing with your life and still get by. (Very few people have no potential. Lives wasted. Work undone. Bad examples set. Grossly unfair to the working, which demoralizes them.)
- You can be a complete asshole and still get by. (This one is the most insidious. Some people need an incentive to behave socially, and consequences for bad behavior. Without the give and take and social feedback of relationships, people become antisocial, shameless, or even crazy.)
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Meanwhile, the Hawaii government feeds off the teat of petroleum taxes...
Considering how far out of vogue petroleum is falling I suspect you're not going to have to worry about that very much longer.
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I agree gas taxes better solution than carbon tax which is more complicated and might require another level of bureaucracy. And when I see the jammed streets on Oahu my conclusion is everybody can afford to drive a car except me and my Undeniable truth of life- Americans and French people are born to drive. But really I don't think you need a car to live on Oahu. The place you need a car is the Big Island. I also think Oahu people are intimidated by the distances on the Big Island. So perversely gas taxes make Oahu the place that could afford to lose some population a more attractive place to live.
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As of Wednesday, the national average price of gas in the US reached $2.88
We happen to have 2...2 refineries here in Hawaii
Hawaii $3.734 Its those dang unnamed in BOTH houses controlling the Hawaii gov....criticize the unnamed of the Hawaii gov please hopte
...follow your advise an keep it local...the unnamed in DC could give 2 hoots about us
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..follow your advise an keep it local...
I fill up my gas tank in either Pahoa or Hilo. If the topic is the high price of gas in Pahoa or Hilo, partly due to a gas tax increase, then it becomes necessary to discuss other aspects of the total price at the pump here in Puna, and what really makes your gas price so high.
If you remember in 2005 it was proven the oil companies extracted 14% of their western district profits (Calif, Wash, Oregon, Hawaii) from 1% of their western district customers living in Hawaii. The Hawaii legislature passed a gas cap law which would have saved us hundreds even thousands of dollars per year, by linking our gas price to west coast prices. Unfortunately, after it was enacted the price of gas increased everywhere and some Hawaii residents, unable to understand the linking mechanism, and the ability to read a newspaper showing higher prices across the nation, blamed the gas cap. Even my bookkeeper who until then I assumed understood how numbers worked came in one morning shouting “the gas cap is raising prices! The gas cap is raising prices!” Because some guy told her so.
The flames were fanned by oil monopolies who wished to return to the good old days of bilking Hawaii drivers without restraint. The pitchforks and torches were brought out by the misinformed among us pressuring the Hawaii legistlaure until they rescinded the law. We’ve been getting gouged again ever since.
The increase in our gas tax is nothing compared to “other” factors which cause you to pay far more than you should for a gallon of gas when compared with “other” consumers. By calculating statistical comparisons with those “other” consumers it can be shown The Truth Is Out There, and the (undisclosed) people behind it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-move...as-prices/
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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"The legislature passed a gas cap law linking our price to west coast prices."
That statement is why the act was rescinded.In most of the mainland prices have dropped but California prices are higher than Hawaii's a lot of the time.
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That's probly why the oil companies couldn't wait to get outa Hawaii-
https://www.civilbeat.org/2013/06/tesoro...g-layoffs/
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@hopte...
The Hawaii legislature passed a gas cap law which would have saved us hundreds even thousands of dollars per year ... Hog Wash
Unfortunately, after it was enacted the price of gas increased everywhere and some Hawaii residents, unable to understand the linking mechanism, and the ability to read a newspaper ...
Your Condisending opinion?
The pitchforks and torches were brought out by the misinformed among us pressuring the Hawaii legistlaure until they rescinded the law. ... Not exactly True. Seems the Experts hired by the State had more to do with the rescinding of the Law.
See link below
The Truth Is Out There ... Yes sir it is. The machine governing this State and counties for the past 49 years continue to gouge their very own people.
http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu...e-Gas-Cap/
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Frank,
The Hawaii gas cap was a confusing issue. It was complex, and difficult to understand, even by experts. The bottom line was that Hawaii gas customers were getting gouged at the pump, it was provable, and it was a significant part of a driver's monthly budget.
Some people were against the gas cap including Hawaii's Republican governor, and a handful of other politicians. Those against the law did everything possible to muddle the issue, confound the public, and obscure the positive aspects of the law. They did all they could to expound, loudly, on the parts that would get rid of the law.
Parts of the legislation didn't work, parts of it were quite effective, so they threw the baby out with the bathwater. It's 14 years gone by now ... I'm thankful the Hawaii legislature at least tried to save us a significant amount of money when we filled up at the pump. It would have averaged more in one year than any gas tax increase will cost us over the rest of lives.
We're not considering anything, but all options are on the table. - President Donald J. Trump 1/24/19
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
