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Couple of points on the dirt riding thing:
1) The worst scarring on natural environments comes from off-road vehicles. Hikers, people riding off-road bicycles, dirt riders--all create trails, but much less so. Many communities ban ORV use. Banning all non-motorized recreation is extreme.
That's called preservation. No human entry. If people want to be preservationists for MK, they should be clear about it.
Customarily, with more damaging activities like dirt biking, which creates a web of trails, communities designate one hill or expanse for this activity. We should have one expanse on MK for dirt biking/dirt riding.
Opposition by native Hawaiians (or environmentalists) to such an area--if that is indeed what their position is--would be an unreasonable infringement on recreation on the vast MK mountaintop.
2) The risks of dirt skiing are exaggerated. Think these people are traveling fast over rough terrain? How about motorcyclists? These riders wear gloves, shin pads, long sleeves, helmets, padded clothes.
They have a whole protective outfit. Dirt skiers can avail themselves of the same....
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The Hawaiian religion needs to be recognized with exactly the same rights as and other religion. And their Holy places at least marked out so other people know. It is hard for any non-Hawaiian to even know what proper etiquette is if it not written down anywhere and every Practitioner seems to have a different opinion.
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The Hawaiian Christian religion needs to be recognized with exactly the same rights as an[y] other religion. And their Holy places at least marked out so other people know. It is hard for any non-Christian to even know what proper etiquette is if it not written down anywhere and every Practitioner seems to have a different opinion.
Ain't it a bitch when our intuitive senses are challenged to such a degree that we are forced to act with humility and be sensitive to others we do not inherently understand? As any traveler, or migrant, are we all not put in a position of needing to seek out and come to understand the cultural practices of our hosts? As long term residences are we not entitled to our cultural practices and have the right to expect those who visit, or come to live besides us, to do so with the humility that we would bring when visiting them and theirs?
This whole idea of equal rights for all hinges on a certain amount of acumen, a certain amount of humility and respect, without which we are all just animals. Are you suggesting that is preferable to a well ordered mature society in which kindness and respect for others is paramount?
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hard for any non-Christian to even know
No, the government can simply legislate morality. For example, requiring internet access devices to block porn by default. The block can be removed if you register and pay a fee, thereby creating a government-maintained list of deviant perverts.
are we not entitled to our cultural practices
Many local residents honor their cultural heritage by living in unpermitted shacks -- it's completely illegal, yet government tolerates this religious practice by simply looking the other way.
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are we all not put in a position of needing to seek out and come to understand the cultural practices of our hosts?
Yes.
Question: It's been 250 years. When are we no longer considered guests?
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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It's been 250 years. When are we no longer considered guests?
Probably longer than the time it took those skiers to show up and do their thing.
In the bigger picture I think the issue is muddled by the dynamic I sited in my earlier post where I suggest all parties involved act as codependents indulging in the inconclusive state that has been maintained all these years. Had all parties worked for and come to conclusions the issue would be way different than the generations of dangling possibilities without any commitment to any of them.
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Had all parties worked for and come to conclusions
If you look around, the conclusion continues to take place even today.
It’s just that a few decide they’ll drive their 4WD conclusion on the paved conclusions up the mountain (rather than the more culturally appropriate walking) park & set up tents on the conclusion, then roll rocks they claim are sacred and should not be disturbed unless the rollers are personally disturbed, across the conclusion which easily allows them access for religious and cultural practices on the summit.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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The cinder skier apologized:
“I can now see that we should not have skied on the volcano at Mauna Kea #8213; at this astonishing and powerful mountain,” athlete Markus Eder said in an emailed statement.#8233;“For this I offer my deepest apology to the people of Hawaii. They and their culture inspire my profound respect. The thought that I have offended them leaves me feeling gutted.”
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/02/08/...mauna-kea/
Apology accepted?
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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the conclusion continues to take place even today.
Actually I was referring to conclusions about status, whether Hawaiians are afforded special status as are all other native Americans, and in what form that would take. Hawaiians do not have a conclusive understanding of their place in society. They have special compensation, 20% of Crown lands revenue, which speaks volumes to a special status, but really has not been codified to the degree that the American Indian's reservation system and their rights have. Instead we encourage them to hold onto their cultural identity with OHA and DHHL, immersion programs and the like, but we do not make a clean and tenable definition of their place. Bill Clinton offered an apology but didn't back that up with an firm position on compensation. It all just hangs in the middle. Obama tried reaching out and the Hawaiians rejected his efforts. The Hawaiians held a constitutional convention that was only partially supported by their own, and imperiled by court challenges. Things move forward in jerky inconclusive steps that will continue to eat up time without actual resolution. Without conclusions.
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special status as are all other native Americans
"The Hawaiians" rejected that idea, they want the haoles to leave and give them back "their" island.
special compensation, 20% of Crown lands revenue
I suspect many of "the Hawaiians" would prefer somewhere to call home.
