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I think the idea of a boss pocketing profit by shortchanging the people who work for them is disgusting.
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How can you possibly assume that this is the case? On that note, I assume you have never started/built a small business? Many small business owners make very little profit or take very little pay as they try to grow their business.
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A person should be paid a wage equal to the work they do. If they give their full time, then they should be able to live on the money they earn.
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What you are describing leaves most newcomers to employment (jobs) out cold. What do you do for for teenagers and others with no experience that simply want to learn? Why does a 16 year old need to earn a "living wage" whatever that is?
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I assume you have never started/built a small business?
wow.. wrong! many times over.
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Let's see...
I said:
But then, if you want to say we should have a class of employment that is less than, and buyer beware, sure. But call that what it is. Not an excuse to screw people over. But some sort of entry level, short term, work experience for young people etc.
And then, after that, in response to that, leilanidude said:
What you are describing leaves most newcomers to employment (jobs) out cold. What do you do for for teenagers and others with no experience that simply want to learn? Why does a 16 year old need to earn a "living wage" whatever that is?
dude..?
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quote:
Originally posted by glinda
I assume you have never started/built a small business?
wow.. wrong! many times over.
How many people did you employ at any given time?
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"I think the idea of a boss pocketing profit by shortchanging the people who work for them is disgusting."
When I had employees I couldn't afford to take a wage. In fact I frequently had to dip into savings to pay them on time. I thought that was disgusting, but I still paid them more than minimum wage, but it was not a living wage.
I'm all for paying people as much money as they are worth, but the problem is that small businesses frequently don't turn a profit for years, and sometimes never. The problem with unrealistic minimum wages is that frequently only large corporations can afford to pay them, and the mom and pop operations either go out of business or never get started to begin with.
A $15.00/hour employee costs much more than $15.00. The employer has to pay workers compensation insurance, social security tax, medicare tax, unemployment insurance, legal liability insurance, plus you have to train them, provide clothing / protective gear, and in some cases pay into a fund for annual / sick / family leave. It gets to the point where labor is the highest expenditure and the first thing, frequently the only thing, that can be cut in order to keep the paychecks flowing.
If I have a Norman Rockwell vision of the world, you have a Mr. Potter from It's a Wonderful Life view where every employer is a rich banker sticking it to the little guy. Most small businesses that I know only operate because it's a family operation where they can only stay open by paying their family members nothing. Which brings me back to the original concept that the minimum wage is actually zero. Look at how many jobs have been lost to self-ordering kiosks, automatic check-out lanes, etc.
Even the big corporations are having problems paying higher wages as operations like Amazon that use thousands of robots squeeze the market. As the number of employers continues to decline people are discovering they have less freedom in choosing where they can work. Meanwhile the corporations that can afford to raise their prices to pay "living wages" drive up the inflation rate so that everything costs more, negating the wage increases and eventually people start thinking socialism is a good idea. So yeah, we'll never see Richie Cunningham sweeping the barber's floor for $5/hour because the state has mandated he must pay $20.00 (wages, taxes, insurance, etc) so the barber just does it himself, and the red head kid gets paid the real minimum wage: nothing.
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quote:
Originally posted by glinda
I assume you have never started/built a small business?
wow.. wrong! many times over.
Sorry, but your response leaves me wondering just how many of those businesses were successful... which, in tern makes me wonder just how realistic your attitude is toward entry level work.
Entry level jobs aren't intended to be careers. Being brutally honest about it, anyone making a career out of an entry level job is lacking the motivation to develop their skill sets so that they can advance beyond those positions to one of more responsibility and technical proficiency. I started my career with a few entry level jobs and quickly grew tired of shoveling sh*t and getting p*ssed upon - both literally and figuratively (worked in retail and at a dairy farm) - and it didn't take much convincing that I could do better. Those entry level experiences provided me with the necessary motivation to develop the skill sets to do better.
Old fashioned as it may be, I still think that there is value in the notion that "society" (i.e. the taxpayer) doesn't owe you a wage beyond your worth if you are lacking in the motivation to develop marketable skills and the will to apply those skills in a (legal) productive manner.
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"Entry level jobs aren't intended to be careers."
One of our employees was a full time flight attendant. She worked for us because she wanted to. If the bureaucrats told us we had to pay her $20.00/hour they would have been taking away her right to choose to work for us, because we would have been unable to employ her at that rate.
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I started my career with a few entry level jobs
Me too. Mine were pretty gruesome, I actually think a dairy, which along the way I ended up building some dairy barns but never working in one, might have been a tad more fun than the choker setter I started as, but only barely for sure.
My point is, if a person gives you all their time, they have to be able to buy all their needs with the money they make.
The interesting thing is, it appears to me, those who argue most against government subsidies, EBT etc, argue against a living wage. Where in reality those that do not make a living wage are most apt to need a little government subsidy. The dichotomy is untenable, and in the long run a source of some our society's ills.
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If the bureaucrats told us we had to pay her $20.00/hour
Not a problem if you hire "consultants" instead of "employees", which is why the "gig economy" is so popular these days.
I'm looking forward to the transformation of retail. Browsing poorly-stocked shelves to discover that they don't have what I need is a huge waste of time. I would rather browse a catalog on my computer or smartphone, then visit the warehouse to pick up what I wanted.
Such an arrangement would be a far more efficient use of space. Better stock levels and/or more selection and/or less square footage (which is important when real estate is expensive and scarce).
They could even include a couple of immersive VR booths for people who need/want that "wander through the store" experience.
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