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quote:
Originally posted by hokuili
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
December 1994...
I suppose that's as far back as news goes on the internet.
The history of Civil disobedience here in the islands is pretty rich. Well worth looking into if you're interested.
hokuili is correct - we've had eco and ethno extortion going back much further than 1994 - massive amounts of taxpayer (and private investment) money wasted to allow the professional activists in Hawaii an opportunity to wax sanctimonious about their environmental concern and ethnic oppression....
Afraid I'm still not clear on what that has accomplished - aside from driving away productive business investment - and the best and brightest of the younger generation, who have to look for an economically secure future elsewhere.
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not clear on what that has accomplished
It makes a good living for the "right" people. Consider the current example: an entire village of free food, music, camping. Down the road, unlimited law enforcement overtime to "guarantee safety" -- and if they're bored, there's always traffic citations to be written. Meanwhile, in the halls of government, endless hand-wringing about "what will we do" -- much easier than, say, actually working on legislation to improve the quality of life.
Related: I knew people who claimed Hawaii was the best place to be homeless. Benefits as soon as you get off the plane, beaches to sleep on, fruit growing by the roadside. Not just tales, but actual first-hand knowledge.
It doesn't matter how much it costs because you can always just raise taxes. What are people going to do, drive over to the next county or state in search of a better deal?
Why would anyone (or at least, some people) bother to get a job?
Originally posted by geochem - Afraid I'm still not clear on what that has accomplished...
I think the re-emergence of a culture is an amazing thing. It can not happen other than organically and the will to do so has to be carried by many through generations. Without a roadmap or guide, and in Hawaii's case without even a solid foundation in historical information, the path that has to be navigated has to be built as if from scratch. I don't believe those that follow this path do so as if by choice. As hardwired as our sexuality, the need for an identity is overwhelming.
I think civil disobedience has been an integral part of the Hawaiian culture's renaissance from the get go. I doubt the two are separable.
If we consider language as an extension of the mind, and the effects that the period in which the Hawaiian language was taboo had on its people, the Hawaiian Education program is a major accomplishment. What allowed the state to see the wisdom in fostering the re-emergence of the Hawaiian language? Did the Hawaiian people's prior acts of civil disobedience play any part?
From: http://www.hawaiipublicschools.org/Teach...ogram.aspx
In the late 1960's and early 1970's, a resurgence in cultural pride and identity led to a significant increase in the interest in and the practice of the Hawaiian culture. A major movement of grassroots support for music, hula and language activities in the community emerged. This renaissance in Hawaiian culture led to community demand for more Hawaiian-oriented courses of study in schools and colleges.
The concern that the Hawaiian language would be lost with the passing of the existing native speakers became a major focus, in view of the belief that understanding of the Hawaiian language is the key to fully understanding the whole culture of the Hawaiian people. Efforts began to revitalize the language.
On the political side, the Office of Hawaiian Affairs was created in the 1978 Constitutional Convention. The State Constitution was amended in 1978 to include Article X, Section 4 which mandated that the State promote "the study of Hawaiian culture, history and language" by providing a Hawaiian education program and using community expertise "as a suitable and essential means in furtherance of Hawaiian education." Furthermore Article XV, Section 4 officially recognizes Hawaiian as an official language of the State. These political changes led to the changes in the educational system...
The occupation of Kahoolawe began in 1976 and was galvanizing. What role might those acts of civil disobedience have had in spiriting change in all sorts of matters relating to the Hawaiian people? Consider the timeline at the DOE link above I think the Hawaiian people have gained a lot through their acts of civil disobedience.
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A lot of words that are all pretty meaningless when it comes to the trash being left on Mauna Kea. Apparently there's a cleanup effort by the Kia'i this weekend but it only comes after being shamed by the media.
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"As hardwired as our sexuality, the need for an identity is overwhelming."
That's the reason Mauna Kea is the location for telescopes - the human race is driven to discover and understand the universe and our place within it. Mauna Kea is among the best places on the planet to do that.
A minority of people want to stop that. In their efforts they leave trash on Mauna Kea, tell Hawaiians they aren't Hawaiian unless they support their cause and post lies about the impact of the observatories.
But they have a "need for an identity". Bollocks. They have a need for attention.
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All of the photo's at the KITV link look reasonable to me.
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I think the re-emergence of a culture is an amazing thing... in Hawaii's case without even a solid foundation in historical information,
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need for an identity is overwhelming.
...
language as an extension of the mind
I just read a long review of "God's of the Upper Air" by Charles King. In it he discusses the changing views of cultural anthropologists over the last 100 years, including a lengthy discussion between two researchers in the 1990's about Captain Cook meeting the Hawaiians.
There's been plenty of disagreement over the years on epistemic relativism, which states knowledge is valid only relatively to a specific context, society, culture, or individual.
So my question is, if a person is unable to recognize garbage in a photograph, when it's visibly defiling the land, aren't intangibles such as identity and language and their affects on and in the world - - even more difficult to recognize, understand, and characterize?
I would also like to hear more, in greater detail about this comment:
I think the re-emergence of a culture is an amazing thing... in Hawaii's case without even a solid foundation in historical information,
It sounds less like you believe the culture is evolving, but more like it's being fabricated as we watch, right in front of our eyes.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
Bollocks...
All things considered, if your's is exemplary of the insensitiveness of the astronomical community there's little wonder as to why you all are having the problems you are here. And, sadly, why it is your stay in the islands will probably be shorter than it needs, or should, be.
You can swear all you want Tom, but it takes two to tangle and your need to play the bully rather than the understanding, compassionate, and inquisitive scientist (that is suppose to be central to your nature) probably has more to do with your problems than you will ever be willing to admit.
As such, I think all the answers are right there in the mirror, staring back at you whenever you look. That the entire issue would be resolved if only you were able to perceive your own shortcomings.
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Mauna Kea is not the only place I've watched trash pile up.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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insensitiveness of the astronomical community
Dumping trash on land (any land, especially "sacred" land) isn't insensitive?
They want a handout.
Then why don't they come out and say so? Set a price, negotiate, settle the matter so we can all move forward. The fact that this doesn't happen illustrates the real agenda inherent in any extortion: it's not about the money, it's about holding everyone hostage indefinitely.
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