trash on Mauna Kea

[TomK]

And again:

https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/202...ea-debris/

The comments section is interesting as someone has posted recent pictures from the area. Having been through the site recently I can say those pictures are similar to what I witnessed and that abandoned car has been up there for a long time now.

[Guest]

Mahalo for sharing TomK.
If I may say so myself "What a bias and disrespectful article from the TH".
This whole TMT project and TMT protest has been a Real Humbug on Many. Now some are upset by the trash "belongings" that was left by the county and state's caused protest. They knew what was coming if they pushed this TMT project at the Hawaiians. For over 50 years since the Hilo tsyunami, Astronomy atop Maunakea has continued to develop and prosper.

How have the Hawaiian people done during those same 50 years?
Where or How is the respect being shown to the Hawaiian people?

For several decades Astronomy, State and Island resorts have been using the Mauna Kea access road to prosper without proper compansation towards the Hawaiians. The Hawaiian people may be owed billions for the use of their land and mountain over the past 50 years. Now the TMT project and State are trying to grandfather it's way atop Mauna Kea for the next 80 plus years.

Here's a few ideas and thoughts for "future talks" involving our great State of Hawaii and the TMT's $billion$ projects.
Settle your debt, clean up, apologize and reappraise the sacred and valuable Astronomy used land for the Hawaiians.
Take care of all the Hawaiians who have been waiting years on any list for land in Hawaii.
Allow Hawaiians with at least 20 percent Hawaiian blood to qualify for future land, education and compensation.
UHH could and should be free for all Hawaiians who earn themselves a high school deploma in any state.

[MarkP]

The "protectors" have created a situation in which respecting them is antithetical to moving forward for society as a whole. Fortunately they are a minority. Unfortunately the silent majority of native Hawaiians and others who support the TMT are sort of brainwashed and at a minimum don't feel free to speak freely.

I agree with free tuition but not just for certain races.
I disagree with selecting people for anything based on any % racial make-up.
I agree that OHA and DHHL owe Hawaiian people on waiting lists a huge debt and should immediately fix the flustercluck they have presided over for decades.
I agree that apologies are in order but I don't think it realistic that the troublemakers spreading misinformation about the TMT will ever do so. I agree that if the ancient Hawaiians used the mountain for industrial mining of basalt then clearly claiming that studying the stars with a modern zero emission telescope is desecration calls for a reappraisal of the "protectors'" priorities. Again, I don't think they are up to it.

[leilanidude]

For several decades Astronomy, State and Island resorts have been using the Mauna Kea access road to prosper without proper compansation towards the Hawaiians. The Hawaiian people may be owed billions for the use of their land and mountain over the past 50 years. Now the TMT project and State are trying to grandfather it's way atop Mauna Kea for the next 80 plus years.
----------
Let's subtract the cost of building and maintaining that road over the years, from any "payments" made to "Hawaiian agencies". Maybe they owe the state, instead?

[rainyjim]

What an interesting creature, it’s definitely gypsy.

That particular brand of troll where you actually find yourself considering how much time and effort it puts into it’s posts. There is enough peripheral information on the topic that those without much knowledge might be led to believe there is some degree of legitimacy when in reality it’s using all the same talking points that have been disproved for years now or have no relation to the issue at hand. It’s the same tactics that fake news uses and it’s laughable how the style follows gypsy’s precedent with flawless detail.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

it’s laughable how the style follows gypsy’s precedent with flawless detail.

Note the brilliant logic employed:
Now some are upset by the trash "belongings" that was left by the county and state's caused protest.

Yes!
"The Unprotectors" had no choice but to desecrate the sacred mountain, in order to save it with their own garbage and abandoned vehicles, because they were forced by the county and state. You can't engage in neo-civil disobedience without trashing the site, can you? When you think of Henry Thoreau what's the first thing that comes to mind? All that litter he tossed around Walden Pond? And why did police use fire hoses on Martin Luther King and his followers if not to pressure wash and clean up the area? Don't get me started on the carts and leftovers from dabbawalas scattered across and around dirt roads when Gandhi went on his marches.

[kalakoa]

For several decades Astronomy, State and Island resorts have been using the Mauna Kea access road to prosper without proper compansation towards the Hawaiians.

For several decades, land has been held in trust for the "benefit" of Native Hawaiians, except that none of them ever actually receive this "benefit" and in fact many have died of old age on the waiting list. Clearly the fault of astronomy, resorts and the State, which is why it's vitally important to protest astronomy, because it has the least money.

some are upset by the trash "belongings"

Calling attention to the existence of the trash is "dirty tactics", obviously it's better if nobody says anything derogatory about "the" Hawaiians.

[Frank]

@MarkP...I agree that OHA and DHHL owe Hawaiian people on waiting lists a huge debt and should immediately fix the flustercluck they have presided over for decades.

bold by me...to put a finer point on the subject, it's my understanding that these agencies are State controlled agencies.

Am I mistaken?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

these agencies are State controlled

OHA’s board is elected. I believe all or almost all are Native Hawaiian.
The new head of DHHL is Native Hawaiian. Some Native Hawaiians were for, some were against his appointment.

[kalakoa]

these agencies are State controlled

No. These agencies are MONEY controlled -- and the less they spend, the more they keep for themselves.