Unpermitted, off-grid, and grateful!

[Obie]

I have to agree with Hotzcatz on this - a  permitted house is the way to go.  A current example of what can/will happen: 

There is a guy down the road from me who has built his cabin over the course of several years about half way down a 3-acre shotgun lot, unpermitted, off-grid, and I have no idea what his plumbing/sewage situation is.  Last month, a bulldozer came and cleared the adjacent 6 acres ( 2 shotgun lots ), pin to pin.  The cabin is easily seen from the cleared acreage.  It's actually visible now when driving by on the road.  When the new people get their house built, with all the inspector visits required, the cabin owner will be having major problems.  Just because an area is rural doesn't mean you are invisible to your neighbors.

The inspectors will not do anything. The system is complaint driven and if no one complains then nothing happens.

I did a lot of unpermitted work to my home but it was always done to code and it was permittable. I just didn't have the time or patience to go through the process. When the lava took it my insurance company gave me full value based on the pictures I had taken.

[dobanion]

At great risk, I'll jump into the whole non-permitted discussion.

If you really would like to "live simply" and yes, admittedly, cheaply, you can't do it with permits. Especially since septic became required. Lots of folks would like to have a composting toilet, and water their plants with their grey water. Include me in that camp. It happens to be vastly cheaper, and I'd argue, far better for the environment as a whole. But county says, "nope, pay somebody $15,000 so you can use perfectly good water to wash your turds away."

FYI, there is a "glamping" tent on Airbnb, on the Big Island, right now, with a separate "bath house", shower (gravity fed, drain to ground) and composting toilet, with photos. When will the county "go after" this person? Does anyone think they should? Would it make anyone feel better to know there's a plastic tank with 1000gallons of sewage in the ground instead of a compost pile and some wet lava rock?

I agree cesspools are bad. Raw crap in the ground is bad. Kapoho tidepools had something going on. Then Pele solved that problem.

Next topic, you can't do everything yourself with permits. You still need to hire and pay "certified" electricians and plumbers to do that work. Yes, if you know a guy you can pay him to just inspect your own work. Pay into the approved system designed to take money out of your pocket.

And most recently, IECC. International Energy Conservation Code. I have to stuff R-30 in my ceiling now? Why? Do the rats need a nice bed? I'm REQUIRED to install ceiling fans? Why? What if I'm building in Ocean View and the wind is blowing through at 15mph day and night? I MUST have 15% of my floor space in "operable fenestration?"

What if you'd like to build a unconventional structure, because you want to? Because you have a passion for it, whatever it is? And the code doesn't recognize it, even if there are hundreds of them out in the world already? I love monolithic domes, think they are great. I like the "eco-shell" approach, which you shoot concrete on the outside of a airform, then you can deflate it and use it again when you are done. Cool huh? Well, flexible basalt "rope" is by and large the best way to reinforce these types of shells. But, code doesn't recognize the material. I have to use Chinese manufactured rebar instead. OK, fine, I'll do that. Oh wait, IECC has kicked in. And it says, I need to insulate. Since there is no distinction on a dome between wall/roof/ceiling (again, code doesn't care), I have to insulate the whole thing. Which in turn, DOUBLES the completed material cost of the shell. The labor goes even higher, as I don't have the means or equipment to do the urethane spraying. For something I don't need, nor want. To "satisfy" the code.

It all just starts to grind on you.

If you want a full time conventional house for a family with flush toilets, I'd agree, get the permits, follow the rules. Not for everyone.

[Punaperson]

Obie, I agree with most of your post, that the inspectors are complaint driven - except for sewage / sanitation. They will check on that. I know people who had an outhouse over a cesspool, and were ok, so it doesn't have to be totally up to current code. (I don't know how composting toilets are treated.) But just using a lava tube, which drains under the next makai lot, or a bucket, will start a chain of problems. It's referred to the Board of Health, which does do more follow-up.

[dobanion]

Valid point. How do they consider composting toilets? They look the other way, with the consideration they are not a public health hazard? Or enforce the law to the letter, which bundles everything "non-septic" as the same?

[eightfingers2.0]

What about taxes? Are the unpermiited paying their “fair” share?

[randomq]

What about taxes? Are the unpermiited paying their “fair” share?

Personally, I don't pay tax* on my "unpermitted" structures, but I also don't benefit from the homeowners exemption. Considering my whole home cost < $20k, I would be happy to pay taxes on it, if it did not trigger an inspection.  Now where's kalakoa to talk about receiving services for his taxes?

* Though I do pay vehicle and gas taxes that don't go to my roads, and income tax that is not fairly distributed to Puna. So ultimately I am probably paying *more* than my fair share.

[terracore]

Valid point. How do they consider composting toilets? They look the other way, with the consideration they are not a public health hazard? Or enforce the law to the letter, which bundles everything "non-septic" as the same?

I was told they will issue a permit for a dwelling with composting toilet, but only if it has a septic system for the gray water.

[randomq]

Valid point. How do they consider composting toilets? They look the other way, with the consideration they are not a public health hazard? Or enforce the law to the letter, which bundles everything "non-septic" as the same?

I was told they will issue a permit for a dwelling with composting toilet, but only if it has a septic system for the gray water.

A buddy of mine got the same answer from the county.  The kitchen sink (because it could have meat scraps) required a septic tank.  Poor guy was vegan, so it irked him twice as much.

[eightfingers2.0]

(No taxes)< (taxes with homeowners exemption).

[randomq]

Actually, the base tax rate for my "empty land" is about $100 higher than if I claimed the homeowners exemption.