Economic Alternatives For Hawaii

[randomq]

@HotPE In the future this will all be automated... And when a glitch determines you owe back taxes, there won't be a menu option for "the computer screwed up", and there will be no human operators or supervisors available. A brave new world awaits!

[terracore]

Is that HPP? I can see the new tower in the background!

[kander]

Although tax revenue to the state is an issue. its is by far the smallest part of my worries. They will tax as much as they can until people are unable to pay.
A more troublesome part of this is the tourism industry employs a lot of people. those people buy things from other businesses and so on is the economic food chain. Without diversification in our economic base a lot of people are going to starve, loose their houses, loose their cars, loose their insurance. Etc, etc, etc

Its obvious to me that the Anti everything that happens in Hawaii by those who need not worry about their financial situation is selfish to those who seek opportunity. Maybe Im wrong.

[kalakoa]

Lots of retired people in Hawaii. They have all day to voice their "concerns" at Planning hearings. Maybe retirement benefits should be taxable, so retirees can "pay their fair share"?

The "economic food chain" can be (and is) fed with source revenue other than tourism, so it's mildly misleading to conflate these. For example, retirees buy groceries.

We aren't going to get "diversification in our economic base", not now and not ever. Decision-makers are just fine with the status quo. Voting is really a game of musical chairs, the same "old boy network" elected into different titles. (I'm using the term "elected" very loosely here.)

Current jokes: we can build a local agriculture industry ... just as soon as the State creates all the necessary infrastructure for us. We can have a new "green economy" ... if the money will just fall from the sky.

Speaking of jobs, revenue, and diversification: if TMT can't be built, it's just a matter of time before UHH shuts down the astronomy program. Hopefully the extra buildings can be converted into a resort or something, otherwise we'll be paying maintenance *and* not generating revenue.

[Chas]

Retirement benefits are taxed. Only government retirement benefits are tax free.

[hankie1]

Lots of retired people in Hawaii. They have all day to voice their "concerns" at Planning hearings. Maybe retirement benefits should be taxable, so retirees can "pay their fair share"?

The "economic food chain" can be (and is) fed with source revenue other than tourism, so it's mildly misleading to conflate these. For example, retirees buy groceries.

We aren't going to get "diversification in our economic base", not now and not ever. Decision-makers are just fine with the status quo. Voting is really a game of musical chairs, the same "old boy network" elected into different titles. (I'm using the term "elected" very loosely here.)

Current jokes: we can build a local agriculture industry ... just as soon as the State creates all the necessary infrastructure for us. We can have a new "green economy" ... if the money will just fall from the sky.

Speaking of jobs, revenue, and diversification: if TMT can't be built, it's just a matter of time before UHH shuts down the astronomy program. Hopefully the extra buildings can be converted into a resort or something, otherwise we'll be paying maintenance *and* not generating revenue.

I bet retired people pay there fair share property taxes ,get taxes and all the other taxes Hawaii adds on when you do anything with the state and county . I agree with you about the good old boy network here look at all the people running for mayor here and Oahu . It the  same good old boys mostly

---

The answer for an economic alternative for Hawaii, IMHO, is that we will find that it's a whole lot of little ones and not one big one or even several big ones.  There will be some ag, although it will be high end and not commodity farming. 
We could be growing koa and supplying really high end woodworkers.  That's a very Hawaii thing.
Online work is good since then folks are bringing in jobs from somewhere else.
Hawaii is seen as having a lot of mana, having healing workshops, spas, etc., might be something.
Not everyone needs a full living wage.  If there's a household of two or three wage earners, then each of them won't have to make a complete living wage to keep the household going.  Most folks have more than one income stream, too, so each doesn't require to e a full living wage.

Do you know how long it would take to grow Koa wood tree large enough to harvest about 20 years that not going to help anyone  lets be real about this

[eightfingers2.0]

You can NOT tax your way to prosperity.

[randomq]

You can NOT tax your way to prosperity.

There is some evidence to challenge that assumption.  Nordic countries have very high taxes, for instance, but their education, social programs, job training programs, universal healthcare, and safety nets are a form of prosperity.  They are both more wealthy on average than other European countries, and have less economic inequality.  They are also much more engaged in their elections than we are here in Hawaii, have better education, and their leaders are held to task by the population and unions.

I think the problem we have here in Hawaii is that our leaders suck, and also we haven't established enough resilient economic activity to support a high-tax, high-service model.  We have systemic incompetence and corruption, and they already squander our tax money on themselves and their cronies, so why would we want to give them more?  But if we elected proper leaders, and they cleaned house, and enticed sustainable industries to move to Hawaii, moving workers over from the public sector to the new private sector jobs...  Maybe then we could think about raising taxes for the common good.  Green infrastructure projects that would reduce our dependence on oil and lower electric bills.  Free education and job training to reduce the welfare rolls.  Better teachers, more and better medical specialists...

[kalakoa]

If retirees are "paying their fair share", then clearly the unpermitted are also paying theirs, right? Because living here is taxed, somehow, regardless of how you structure your particular deal.

Obvious exception for the ultra-wealthy who can just make their own arrangements.

[Hotzcatz]

Lots of retired people in Hawaii. They have all day to voice their "concerns" at Planning hearings. Maybe retirement benefits should be taxable, so retirees can "pay their fair share"?

The "economic food chain" can be (and is) fed with source revenue other than tourism, so it's mildly misleading to conflate these. For example, retirees buy groceries.

We aren't going to get "diversification in our economic base", not now and not ever. Decision-makers are just fine with the status quo. Voting is really a game of musical chairs, the same "old boy network" elected into different titles. (I'm using the term "elected" very loosely here.)

Current jokes: we can build a local agriculture industry ... just as soon as the State creates all the necessary infrastructure for us. We can have a new "green economy" ... if the money will just fall from the sky.

Speaking of jobs, revenue, and diversification: if TMT can't be built, it's just a matter of time before UHH shuts down the astronomy program. Hopefully the extra buildings can be converted into a resort or something, otherwise we'll be paying maintenance *and* not generating revenue.

I bet retired people pay there fair share property taxes ,get taxes and all the other taxes Hawaii adds on when you do anything with the state and county . I agree with you about the good old boy network here look at all the people running for mayor here and Oahu . It the  same good old boys mostly

---

The answer for an economic alternative for Hawaii, IMHO, is that we will find that it's a whole lot of little ones and not one big one or even several big ones.  There will be some ag, although it will be high end and not commodity farming. 
We could be growing koa and supplying really high end woodworkers.  That's a very Hawaii thing.
Online work is good since then folks are bringing in jobs from somewhere else.
Hawaii is seen as having a lot of mana, having healing workshops, spas, etc., might be something.
Not everyone needs a full living wage.  If there's a household of two or three wage earners, then each of them won't have to make a complete living wage to keep the household going.  Most folks have more than one income stream, too, so each doesn't require to e a full living wage.

hankie wrote:  Do you know how long it would take to grow Koa wood tree large enough to harvest about 20 years that not going to help anyone  lets be real about this

---

---

The answer for an economic alternative for Hawaii, IMHO, is that we will find that it's a whole lot of little ones and not one big one or even several big ones.  There will be some ag, although it will be high end and not commodity farming. 
We could be growing koa and supplying really high end woodworkers.  That's a very Hawaii thing.
Online work is good since then folks are bringing in jobs from somewhere else.
Hawaii is seen as having a lot of mana, having healing workshops, spas, etc., might be something.
Not everyone needs a full living wage.  If there's a household of two or three wage earners, then each of them won't have to make a complete living wage to keep the household going.  Most folks have more than one income stream, too, so each doesn't require to e a full living wage.

Do you know how long it would take to grow Koa wood tree large enough to harvest about 20 years that not going to help anyone  lets be real about this

Yup, in about fifteen years you can start selective harvesting and after that continually harvest about 15% per year.  It's astonishingly profitable once it gets going.  There's a mainland lumber company who was over here back in the early 2000's buying up large tracts and planing koa and other hardwoods.  Again, it's a mainland company using Hawaii for profit while Hawaii people just sit back and say it can't be done.

Some Hawaii folks could hui together or start a corporation which would endure past a single craftperson's lifetime and that entity could buy up land and plant tropical hardwoods.  Get a grant or try for a 'go fund me' or some other creative financing.  Folks who thrive are the ones who find ways to make it work instead of ways it won't work.