Cave relics

[bystander]

Good post Momi. The Kanaka Maoli were here before anyone else and that should be enough to bolster their claims. Claiming that only a certain people really care about the land and have a deep spiritual connection to it will only backfire. I've already read posts elsewhere by people who say it's the Hawaiians of today that are the one's littering and trashing the land. Even if this is true, I say it's their land to trash and the land doesn't really suffer for it unless it's chemical or radioactive pollution which is more likely to be caused by large companies or the government. The trash looks bad but this is just cosmetic. The land will still be here years after we are all dead. I actually can understand why some Hawaiians may feel free to litter. The land they are littering on probably has been bought by some rich haole so let them pay to clean it up. I'm rambling now so I'll stop.

[Momi]

Thanks bystander,

I think it is horrible to see locals littering which I've actually never actually seen in person or I would have them turned in. I wonder if it is only the Hawaiians or locals? I'm sure there are some non hawaiians doing this too. They by no means have the right to do that regardless of whether the land was sold to non hawaiians, it is not right to kiloi `opala (litter). You know, we used to have a non hawaiian neighbor who lived next door to our house lot in Kona, who didn't want to take his garbage to the transfer stations (which is only 15 minutes from our house) so he made a big pile in the back yard which harbored mosquitos and was like a dump site. He also had buckets and buckets of lead which were filled with water just sitting in his yard harboring more mosquitos and possibly harboring West Nile virus etc.... I had to keep my kids in the house and worried everytime they went outside. Now he moved away and we have a non hawaiian botanist who bought the place. I couldn't ask for better neighbors. After buying the lot from this person, site unseen, they arrived here in Hawaii only to find the mounds of rubbish and lead. He was upset about it and made the previous owner clean it up. That made me very happy.

[Haole Girl]

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The whole concept of na kanaka being foreigners or newcomers have been used only to justify the crap that has happened in recent decades. Keep in mind that our ancestors didn't come here to profit. They learned to live in harmony with nature. This is not limited to kanaka by the way but you'll see this evident in many other indigenous cultures. Capitalism was a foreign concept.

Then the issue of "Hawaii is my home...." nonesense. Well, it was my father's home too. He was born on Maui and raised on Molokai, and therefore the islands is his home. But he doesn't go off on 'Oiwi and say that he has a claim on these lands as equally as na 'Oiwi. This is "our" (ko makou) kulaiwi, the iwi of our kupuna have been here for centuries. Not ka 'oukou kulaiwi. The English language cannot specify what "home" really is.

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I notice too that it's somehow okay if they call it "Home" but if and when Hawaiians do... they take it as some sort of threat or in some cases as Hawaiians being racist while they turn around and make racist statements against Hawaiians.

Funny how things work huh? Just another Double Standard that is applied to Hawaiians.


Anyway I am with Momi about being careful with the cave artifacts. However I wouldn't have used "foreigner." Instead I would have stated

"So just in case any of you disrespectful people decide to go into any caves in Puna and touch things that you shouldn't. I feel it is important that you read this article."

Mainly because some people do not understand olelo oiwi so they make any kind so to be clearer to those Hawaiian language challenged people... I would have used "disrespectful people" instead of "foreigner" though it was Haole people who disrupted the caves throughout our history:

http://www.missalohahawaii.com/ForbesDocuments.pdf

For those who speak olelo oiwi they can use "foreigners" to translate "Haole" which

can mean:


haole:


nvs. White person, American, Englishman, Caucasian; American, English; formerly, any foreigner; foreign, introduced, of foreign origin, as plants, pigs, chickens; entirely white, of pigs (Malo 37; perhaps Malo actually means of foreign introduction). See kolea 1. References in traditional literature are few, but these have been noted: He haole nui maka ʻâlohilohi (FS 201), a big foreigner with bright eyes [referring to Kama-puaʻa, the pig demigod]. Hânau ke poʻo haole, he haole kçlâ (KL. line 505), born was the stranger's head, that was strange. Hoʻokahi o Tahiti kânaka, he haole (Kua-liʻi chant, For. 4:375) only one people in Tahiti, foreigners. ʻÂina haole, foreign land. ʻÔlelo haole, European language, especially English. hoʻo.haole To act like a white person, to ape the white people, or assume airs of superiority [often said disparagingly, especially of half-whites]. Hoʻohaole ʻia, Americanized, Europeanized; to have become like a white person or have adopted the ways of a white man.

http://wehewehe.org/gsdl2.5/cgi-bin/hdict?a=q&r=1&hs=1&e=q-0hdict--00-0-0--010---4----den--0-000lpm--1haw-Zz-1---Zz-1-home---00031-0000escapewin-00&q=haole&j=pm&hdid=0&hdds=0


But like how Momi already pointed out... we can learn. Perhaps some of us can learn the Hawaiian language so that they can better understand us bilingual (sometimes trilingual) people who can understand Hawaiian (i.e. olelo oiwi) and English.


By the way I am Hawaiian and Haole.






Edited by - Haole Girl on 03/08/2007 11:43:53

Edited by - Haole Girl on 03/08/2007 11:49:54

[mamoahina]

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Hey I knew some people would get upset by my post. I welcome the moderator to delete if it is deemed too controversial. I stand by what I posted. I choose to believe in the science of archeology rather than tradition.

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I have no problems with that. I'm not 15 years old so I won't whine about opposition. Passive is the one thing I am not.

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Traditions don't even mention the fact that there were giant flightless birds here at one time. The fossils were only discovered a few years ago. Who knows what else is waiting to be discovered?

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Exactly! Traditions don't mention it, which tells you something, right?

[Rob Tucker]

Welcome to Punaweb Haole Girl.

It's interesting how people react to the use of various words. "home" or "foreigner" for example. I think your suggestion is a good one. Thank you for joining us.

Everyone carries their own vocabulary and apparently personal variations of meanings. We would all do well to be liberal in our reading of peoples posts and not be quick to assume some, most likely unintended, offense.

Punaweb moderator

[mamoahina]

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Are you suggesting that a supernatural power took the life of the offending grave robber the same way the cave closed with your grand father in it till the relics were placed back?

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Oh no keith, certainly not. Like everything else in life, it's just coincidence.

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The limited knowledge we have about the native population in north America prior to the European landings suggest they were opportunist, manipulated the environment to fit there needs. As there culture became less nomadic a social order developed intent on the kings or chiefs keeping the spoils of the under class for protection of the population social services and order. Sounds like they were profit oriented to me. It is how cultural life expands.

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Thanks for the entertainment. Opportunists? You mean from a western concept. And how much damage did these first peoples have done to other people and society up till the present compared to westerners? Do we even dare to compare because you know for a fact they cannot. But it was a very good attempt.

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If you get a chance read 1491 it deals with life in the America's prior to the European conquest.

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Other tribe members have mentioned that book.

[mamoahina]

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Sure the pre-contact Hawaiians didn't impact the environment as much as other groups but what I'm saying is that if they could have they would have. If they had had the technology they would have built skyscrapers back then. The nene goose was almost wiped out because the Hawaiians suddenly had guns to shoot them with. They sold the birds to tourists for profit. The sandal wood forests were cleared also for profit. For a people who knew nothing of capitalism, they sure learned quickly.

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Ah, very good point! "IF" they could have, they would have, but they didn't. Also, they didn't shoot the nene birds, not sure where you heard that made up story. Selling them to tourists? Come on, you really think that people here are that gullible? Sell them to tourists because they are worth a lot of money dead for what exactly? Care to expound on that?

The sandalwood incident was the one thing we know of involving Hawaiians profiting. And what did that lead to? CONSERVATION and making Hawaiians aware of what other atrocities could happen if we don't be careful. And so they did.

[mamoahina]

Momi...I was not going to mention the Moa at all. hahaha But oh well, cat is out of the bag. Let's see how useful that info. is to baystanda.

[jade]

Momi, I have a quick question for you. A neighbors mother just passed away. They are of hawaiian descent. I would like to do something for them. What is the proper etiquette? Sorry I should have posted this on a new topic.
Mahalo in advance
Jade

[bystander]

They sold the nene goose to the tourist to eat. Nene goose was once on the menu at the volcano house. There was money to made so they hunted the birds. Before guns these birds were hard to catch. Have I expounded enough for you?