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quote:
Culture hell, everything from the word "foreigners" on in this thread has been racist. And to what end? Aloha? I don't think so.
Foreigner defined:
n.
One who is from a foreign country or place.
One who is from outside a particular group
or community;
an outsider.
To be fair... Momi did use it (the word "foreigner" accurately because the Hawaiian Kingdom has existed since about 1820 while the State of "Hawai'i" was created in 1959. She also explicitly stated that she, her husband, and her keiki are mixed so I don't see the "racist" connection there. (There is none.)
As for the "aloha"... it's an abbreviation of "the Aloha Spirit" a product of the Hawai'i Visitor''s Bureau
http://www.gohawaii.com/
which they use to "sell" Hawai'i. It's not necessarily a reflection of our culture (Hawaiian) because throughout Hawaiian history we have had battles with each other and even killed some of our own people so when they use "aloha" it is not very accurate and to me is a misrepresentation of the truth.
Not sure if people read about Hawaiian history but the people of Ka'u which is on Hawai'i too some Hawaiians killed some of their oppressive chiefs.
Samuel Manaiakalani Kamakau covers it in his book "Ruling Chiefs of Hawaii:"
http://www.amazon.com/Ruling-Chiefs-Hawaii-Manaiakalani-Kamakau/dp/0873360141/ref=sr_1_1/104-3781010-4103968?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173474435&sr=8-1
Also Kamehameha killed some of his own relatives so "aloha" is not necessarily a good and/or accurate word considering that some Hawaiians in ancient Hawai'i killed some of their own people.
Sadly, the American school system does not cover this in their school system so some people are somewhat surprised especially when they read about the people of Ka'u.
Even people of Molokai. They are known to pray for their enemies' death. They call it "Moloka'i pule o'o" so the word "aloha" really isn't what some people think it is. The Hawai'i Visitors' Bureau really should have explained more about Hawaiian history then maybe explain how they are using it such as "proper protocol." Even then Kamehameha didn't follow proper protocol. That is how he became king but then who really reads about our history? (Hawaiian history and/or American history)
Y.W.N.
Edited by - Haole Girl on 03/09/2007 10:18:36
Y.W.N.
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quote:
Mean People Suck.
Carrie
If you want to talk about "mean" people... in my opinion those people moving to Hilo, Puna, etc in droves with little to no regard to the consequences
can be considered mean people on a couple of levels:
1. People pollution: Destroying the water, land, and air
2. Increasing demand for homes which increase home prices which end up squeezing local people out of the market
Yet you don't see people here being mean about it yet you have the audacity to imply that WE are mean. Sorry but I don't think so.
So far the words here are not mean but in my opinion one of the meanest things that anyone can do to local people, to Hawaiians, to the land, to the sea, to the air, and to the natural wildlife on Hawai'i is to move to the island of Hawai'i displacing not only some people but also displacing some birds, flora, and fauna.
Now THAT is mean.
Y.W.N.
Edited by - Haole Girl on 03/09/2007 10:26:09
Y.W.N.
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[quote]
At the risk of being smacked on the noggin for hijacking, I'd like to take a moment to recommend a book. Perhaps some of you have read it? It's called The Four Agreements.
http://thesuccessnetwork.net/the-four-agreements/
Okay.
Sorry.
Carry on.
---malolo (...who, by the way, is off to Egypt in a few days. Can't wait to engage some real-live modern-day 3-D Egyptians in conversation regarding how they feel about people raiding their ancestors' tombs!)
Ha! are you kidding...those 3-D Egyptains have been raiding their own tombs for centuries way before Howard Carter step foot in Egypt, still do. You'd be surprised at what they used their mummies for-everything from fertilizer to roof shelters! Enjoy your trip though...Egyptains are happy people, like to joke and most speak english. You might want to learn the term "asalamalakum" or "asalam" for short-meaning peace be with or upon you. Watch out for those taxi drivers, they will take you everywhere you don't want to go, try and sell you stuff, even relics! Just say, la,la,la...they will know you mean NO! Remember always eat drink with your right hand. Catch the light show at the sphinx, its awesome!
Bon par mon ami!
-or in arabic-
Masalama habibi!
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After lurking for a really long time, I had to join in. This topic is the "third rail" of political correctness in Hawaii. There is an 11th Commandment here that goes something like "Thou shalt not question nor criticize the Native Hawaiians and/or their leaders no matter how looney things get." This is especially true for Native Hawaiians themselves, who risk ostracism if they get out of line.
I knew there was racial resentment against white people long before I moved here, and I chose to anyway. I knew that I could never refer to myself as Hawaiian or "local" because those terms were reserved for other races. No worry, I don't have to call myself those things. I have taken lessons in Hawaiian language and love many things about the culture, so I am not without sympathy for the wrongs of local history. I strongly believe that more needs to be done to get Native Hawaiians in homes and farms on DHHL lands. I seek the wisdom of Kipuna in my area because they know more than I do about a lot of useful and important things.
There are some things that are just too much, though. This is the United States of America. Hawaii voted by a huge margin for statehood in 1959. Anyone with US citizenship is not a foreigner here and has the right to live here. Period. Secession is illegal and has dire consequences. Setting up a system of privileges based on blood quantum and race is almost certainly unconstitutional and won't really solve anything anyway.
The cover of USA Today a few days ago had a feature article on racial tensions in Hawaii with details of a recent parking lot beating on Oahu along with some more general stuff. Personally I think the article focused on the negative, but there was a lot of truth in it. That night the lead story on KITV's 5 pm news was that story. They showed horrified tourism officials, Gov. Lingle in deep denial, and a UH professor trying to whitewash the ugliness with academic gibberish.
A few more articles like that, and tourism could fall off badly. Who would be hurt most by a tanking tourism industry? Native Hawaiians who work in hotels and resorts and are already struggling to get by, that's who. And you have people on this forum who think it would be a good idea to greet tourists at the airport and tell them how awful things are for Native Hawaiians! Who is this going to help?
Unfortunately, recent trends in Native Hawaiian leadership have brought the most radical to the forefront. And yes, this is probably because of frustration with slow progress. More moderate leadership would accomplish more. Most of us who might otherwise be sympathetic feel justified in turning away when people preach hatred and secession.
I don't have any plans to leave, and I know a lot more people on the mainland like me who have already made commitments to come. Despite the sometimes hostile atmosphere, I am encouraging them to come. There will be more. It is time for a serious reality check here before something valuable gets swept away in the shuffle.
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Fascinating Hoale Girl, now look up "denial".
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I wonder how long it will take for this thread to get to the point where only Momi and Haole Girl will post.
Aloha,
John S. Rabi, ABR,CM,CRB,FHS,PB
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
75-5870 Walua Road, Suite 101
Kailua-Kona, HI 96740
(808)327-3185
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Good point, John. I'm done.
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The true question is how long before Momi is the only one posting on Punaweb.
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Haole Girl,
A lot of the frustrations you expressed are not unique to hawaii. The Real Estate boom, combined with population growth (Hawaiian, US and world wide) has created simular pressures in many localities and usually the luxuries of blaming a culture or race are not available. You should have cultural pride, and some resentment for the circumstances that befell you forefathers is natural. That said, you are a member of one of the cultures that make up America. You are American.
Getting back to tone.
The emotion that comes through your posts (intended or not, and it sure seems intended) appears to be one that is much stronger than meanness.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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I will post as long as there are people who are listening. Geez, I go to Costco for a day and Carrie thinks she's the authority on niceness. Thanks to Haole girl, we have not gone unheard. The suggestion to Carrie was that she learn the Hawaiian language so she doesn't have to misuse the words. I believe it was Carrie that turned this thread into a racist thread. Good job. For all of your information, Hawaiian language is the mother tongue of this so called state it is the legal language of these islands. I think I just saw something about this on the news the other day. Malolo, Fransesca, Adias and all the other supporters of our culture will keep posting so I won't be the only one posting. Post on!!
Carrie, John, Greg,bystander, Chunker, it's so interesting how you use information to benefit you. Very interesting. You will be the ones who turn everything into racist and thus, we will always have racism in Hawaii because people who turn things around like you all. If you are unwilling to learn you will be the ones in trouble here. Your insensitivity will get you that way. Carrie you have never and will never get it because you are the expert on distorting threads. After I took the time to explain everything to you in a nice way, boy, you sure interpreted it wrong so this is why you will never get it. Jared I, I wonder how you would feel if your grandfathers grave got looted, then sold on ebay. I guess it wouldn't matter to you cause you have no culture. This is how I use to get the children in the schools to understand, that which is sacred to the Hawaiian people should not be touched and they didn't take it wrong. They got it and respected it for what it was and werent one bit of curious.
I will tell you how it is. A foreigner was down at the beach one day, all the local braddahs who grew up at the beach were there too. The "foreigner" went into a cave and came out with a human skull. The local boys all watched as he walked up the beach with such a grin on his face and they beat him up and that is how it is here. Don't dare think you can come here and do that. Whether you think the dead are dead. Whereever you go in this world, you will have to respect the culture and the people, this is a good example of why I'm trying to tell you folks, "no touch" but now it is a racist thing for me to stand up for my kupuna? Palease... you guys are uneducatable.
Oink, I have said it before we are Americans by force and have the same rights as you.
Hawaiians will always be here. And for all of you people who like to change the topic from "cave relics" to "racism" you will always be in conflict if you are in Hawaii and have your mentality.
For your information: I come into major contact with tourist, foreigners, children (pre k and up), college students from all over the mainland and "never" have I ever run into people who are as disrespectful to the Hawaiian culture as I have seen here. It's great that "finally" there are some Hawaiians and Hawaiian cultural supporters are on this website. and thanks Rob, for allowing us to speak the "unspeakable" before I came to this website. I am a huge advocate for preserving the Hawaiian culture and I will not stop. When I am gone from this world, my children and all the people who I have come in contact with in "all" of my tons of educational venues that I do on this island and other islands will understand. but "some" people will never get it. John, why don't you post another one liner so you can get your advertisement on here again.
Now have a nice day.
Edited by - momi on 03/09/2007 16:47:14
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