Another Cost Estimate Question

[lquade]

hello 2 quick points... be very careful of a out-of-state house plan. people who have not lived here sometimes dont plan on those things so important here like huge overhangs, ventilation issues... many many people here have bug/mold problems due to the style of home.. Secondly smiths has doors with hardware for 10 dollars and sinks and occasionally bath, kitchen cabnits for 20 dollars for whoever asked about salvage...

[Carey]

Smiths Appliance & Furniture buys a lot from hotels that are refurbishing. they are in Hilo at across from the DiscountFabric Warehouse off of HWY 11 & Pohaku 961-0322
Bob, you may really want to look at more local styles, the plan you are quoting ($700K @ $135/FT) would be over 5,000 sq ft. That is very large for Hawaii. Many homes have more porch & lanai area & less indoor space. Many homes have carports (used a lot for large entertainment in Hilo surrounds). You will find that there is not the need for alot of clothes storage (as you generally need less here), we moved from the midwest, a house that had 12' of wall closets & 8'x8' walkin closets in each bedroom to 7' of wall closets in each...just don't need that amount of clothing here, low seasonal variation & less need for dressy stuff & such.
One thing I have noticed is that you want to look at your parents abilities now & in the future. We know a number of people that built their dream retirement home a decade or two ago & are now having to look at a the reality of the upkeep & ability to negotiate their homes (flights of stairs & doorways & such). Some of these friends are having to give up their dream home. It is best to think about this now, in your house planning stage. Picture how the house plans will work for your parents when they are much older, what if one needs assisted care. Those friends that have separate living areas have the added + of having live-in accomodations to offer assistants. Just some thoughts.

[Bob Orts]

I appreciate everyone’s comments; it shows how much I need to research. I also appreciate the info sent by email and think I’ve responded to everyone.

First, yes the total sq footage is a bit in excess of 5,000 sq ft but that included the 8' wrap around lanai.

Also, future mobility issues was considered so the rooms are a bit oversized to accommodate wider doors and avoiding cramped furniture placement. I don't want them to end up like many others I know who moved to the living room because they couldn't get around the bed. Everything is designed so they have big open spaces.

Truth is, this house has less sq footage versus their current house. Our idea is a single story. Now they have 2 main floors, a dungeon (basement) and a ghost quarters (attic). But every room in their current house has walls, doors, dozens & dozens of thin windows, wallpaper, heavy drapes - you feel like you’re squished in. If a wall could be built, it seems the builder did so. And brown... Can't tell you how many shades of brown they have in their house.

What we hope to build for them is light and airy, every wall that wasn't needed is gone. To give you a hint, it’s only a 2 bedroom 2 bath house, just each room has the physical space that if they want a lounger in the MBR, they have room for it. My mom confided in me once that in her next house she wants an echo. As for dad, I know he also wants space, lots of open empty space in the house. After all, their love of the Big Island is based on wide open spaces.

So, every bit of advice that's given is greatly appreciated. That’s why when we looked at the packaged home we still saw the mainland in so many of the designs. Although the outside looked Hawaii, the insides could be any home in any development here. We want something they would feel like it was theirs. I’ll say this, the friendliness and helpfulness of everyone I’ve encountered on the east side of the island has got me thinking about what I’ve been missing by mostly staying at the resorts on the other side. Hum, maybe I should check job opportunities next visit.

Thanks again to everyone.

[David M]

Bob
I believe you can accomplish your goals (and your parents) on a smaller footprint. We are currently building our 3 bedroom/4 bath house with some of your concerns in mind. Single floor, 36 inch doors, no halls, minimum interior walls, ada type baths, very open. The master suite iis 880 sf, but also includes and office and exercise room. The other bedrooms are 440 sf each including a full bath with roll-in showers. You can visit my Take me to Ninole Progress if curious. It has links to progress pics.
Regarding mobility - keep in mind that if build on post and pier, lowest point with be approx 24" above the ground, usually meaning 3 or 4 steps or a ramp depending on your lot.

David.

Ninole Resident

[Bob Orts]

Thanks everyone for all the info. The basic info I've received on cost estimations give me a good handle of the probably (reality) cost of actual construction on HI compared to where I am now. So with that info, I can back into our budget and have a better idea of the maximum square footage we can afford to support.

Now a question on material:

Pro's and Cons of windows and doors in:
Vinyl
Wood
Painted Aluminum
Painted Steel
Fiberglass (don't see this option available on HI for windows)

Thanks

[sansei]

Here is an article examining building cost trends across the nation. The good news is that timber costs have been going down. Of course that may not translate well to Hawaii because of transportation costs and termite treatment.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ho...BD075C1%7D

Looks like another glass half-full story. The housing market is in the dumps. The slowdown in building is reducing demand for building materials and having some downward pressure on prices.


Larry

[John S. Rabi]

I wish you were right Larry. I have a client who is a GC in Ohio. He said the Home Depot prices are 10% higher here than there. With the average building cost being $70/sf there, with the 10% added cost it should be $77/sf here, right? The average building cost is $130/sf in Puna and $200/sf in Kona. So where is the difference going?

Aloha,
John S. Rabi, ABR,CM,CRB,FHS,RB
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"

[Chunkster]

Gouging, for the most part, although there are some other differentials, such as the licensing requirements for plumbing and electrical which seem designed more for the benifit of the licensees than the protection of the homeowners. (If it passes inspection, why does it matter who did it?) Oh wait. That's government sanctioned gouging. Can' think of any other reason.

[sansei]

I have several readings on the construction supply business. Home construction, like the sub-prime mortgage business is still unwinding. The big home builders have slowed down construction but have not stopped because it would mean writing off too much of their sunk costs. Infrastructure and commercial building is increasing up so costs of materials like concrete can continue to climb in price.

Hawaii suffers from two problems with regards to lumber. Supplies of desirable structural wood like Douglas Fir come from the Northwest and Canada so they have to be shipped in. When the price of oil goes up as it has recently, shipping charges go up or fuel sir charges make their appearance. The second problem when trying to compare prices in Hawaii versus other parts of the country is that treated lumber is only required in ground/concrete contact situations in most parts of the country. Some of the lumber marketed in Hawaii is HIBOR treated locally. Both situations create a relatively closed market that stifle competition and keeps prices high.

Prices also tend to go up faster than they come down. Retailers are usually reluctant to pass on cost savings if they are not sure they will stick.

We may not see much reduction in building cost but at least I don't think we will be seeing the rapid fire price increases we saw in the recent past. I can remember pricing out materials and finding the price increased by the time I got my order in. I can also remember having to get my order in or buy early to beat a price increase.

Non-materials related costs also impact the cost of building. There is no question that illegal immigrant labor has reduced labor costs in much of the country. Trade unions have had a lock on construction jobs in Hawaii for as long as I can remember. The requirement to have work done by licensed plumbers and electricians are a reflection of the power of the unions. I am not knocking the unions - my father was a union man and it helped pay my way through college. Que sera sera.


Larry

[Chunkster]

I just love the way the Island retailers have us all brainwashed on the shipping expense scam. A few years ago a UH-Manoa ecomomics professor did an comprehensive analysis of costs in the Islands of goods produced on the West Coast of the mainland, such as lumber and California produce. For nearly everything, it cost the same or even less to ship something from the West Coast to Hawaii via container ship than it did to ship the same stuff to the East Coast via rail or especially truck. Prices here, however, were 10-25% more. He came to the conclusion that just about all of our local and most of our mainland-based retailers were gouging. That's why I was thrilled when Home Depot came to Hilo and I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of Super Wally World. It amazes me to see politicians and bleeding hearts want to "protect" the people who have been ripping us off for generations.