Open Web Floor Truss

[Bob Orts]

First are they allowed to be used for post & pier first floor framing instead of 2X's?
Are they manufactured or available locally or are they all shipped in? How is the termite treatment handled if shipped in? Does any contractors work with these for floor framing?

[jm minica]

Are you talking about TJI's(also called truss joists)? If so, they are definitely a great way to frame a floor. I've built many floors using TJI's, and they are far superior to dimesional lumber. Lighter, thus easier to handle, and straight, unlike any lumber you can get nowadays. I dont know of anyone manufacturing them over here, so it would probably be an import item. There is a place in Hilo that does HiBor treating.
If it's not TJI's that your talking about, then maybe you could be more specific.
Aloha,
Mark

[Bob Orts]

Yes Mark, those are the ones I'm talking about. Dimensions lumber for floors and ceilings joist are starting to be a thing of the past here in the west. I've used the I-Joist, but the locations of where you can drill and how big of a hole, are not always usable for the needs. (not to mention how easy they appear to be installed)

If the trusses are being used as floor joist on post & pier, are they required to be treated or only the post? I've seen (on the BI) manufactured roof trusses on trucks so I was hoping they could do floor trusses as well, but I heard the engineering is different and needs special equipment.

If you hear about anyone making or providing them, can you let me know? Also, if you have any thoughts about using them, pro or con, I would appreciate the insight. Thanks much.

[Rob Tucker]

Lighter, thus easier to handle, and straight.......

Why don't you guys consider light gage steel floor joists?
You can add termite proof and fire resistant to the attributes while your at it. Hi-bor is pretty weak tea. Deitrich produces the stuff in Honolulu and you can order it up cut exactly to length. That means no waste. Their Tradeready floor joists have large preset ports for plumbing and wiring. Layout is a snap in method.

I fail to see what is so attractive about using wood for any structural purpose in this age and environment. Is using screws that scary? I am a master carpenter by background. I've come to the conclusion that wood frame is the worst value for the money.......especially here.

You can check out Deitrich here:

http://dietrichindustries.com/

[Bob Orts]

The reason I mentioned wood was because I had no idea that metal was available. I'm sure you've had your share of strange looks when talking about building material that is not the common thing you see at a lumber yard. Not to mention just talking about these non-typical items raises a whole bunch of eyebrows and brings out all the talk of fads, here today - gone tomorrow, type dicussions. If I can't find wood trusses, I wouldn't think metal was commonly availble neither.

[Rob Tucker]

As for floor joists you may find metal joisting material much more available than TJIs or other combinations of wood, sawdust and/or wood chips.

I find it telling that basic engineering so distrusts wood framing that metal connectors (Simpson for example) are now required on most any stress location. Wood is becoming an infill material between metal connectors. And as a infill material it isn't all that great.

There are things I don't like about simple steel framing but joists are about as secure a use for steel as you can find. I've asked a number of builders to name one thing about wood frame which produces a superior structure and no one can name anything. It rots, It warps, it checks, it splits and cracks, it burns, bugs eat it and the defect rate is high. It is supposed to be sold kiln dried to a 7% or less moisture content - that's a joke. It also produces maximum waste (which costs money coming and going) and maximum maintanence.

I think all you carpenters need to look at new materials and methods. Be pragmatic and simply evaluate the positive and negative attributes of the materials and methods you use.

Speaking of fads.... wood framing, as practiced in the U.S. has about a 150 year history. In world terms it is a new fad compared to concrete which has been around a couple thousand years, I will say this about carpentry. In the 19th century when oak and chestnut were hand hewn and mortised & tenoned there were some fine buildings. Stick frame is not at that level. The three little pigs had something to tell us.

[rbonplaza]

Rob, the only concern I have with metal joists is that you still need to put wood subflooring on top of it. Wood joists can squeek, but they don't make as much of a drum-like surface. Do you find that steel makes for a noisier environment on a raised foundation? Regarding the environmental impact of steel vs trees, I would bet that steel will replace wood in stick-house construction in my lifetime. Our fir and pine forests cannot sustain the demand. We've opted for bamboo from the floor up- it just was so attractive for many reasons including being a renewable building material.

[haoleboy]

And wood splinters are MUCH easier to find and carve out of your hand than metal splinters.

Aloha
Richwhiteboy

“Nothing happens by itself... it all will come your way, once you understand that you have to make it come your way, by your own exertions.”
Ben Stein

[Rob Tucker]

Plywood is the least expensive subfloor but not the only choice. In my home I used structural cement panels. They cost more than plywood but they are termite and fire proof and you can set tile directly to the surface. So I think they are actually a better value. They can nail or screw down in a conventional manner.

As far as noise goes I think that wood is more resonant than other materials. It is a choice for instrument making for that reason. My cement panel subfloor is very quiet and sound deadening. Not many drums or guitars are made from concrete.

[Dave M]

Usually lurk here.. but had to chime in on this one. My brother is a contractor and for the last 12 years he has been building Schools and Churches.

He has totally sold me on steel. He too says the wood thing is archaic. When I brought up the fact that the house would be in a tropical environment and what about rust? He makes the analogy of container ships and how they pretty much operate in a tropical environment. Pound for pound after shipping etc.. I think it might be cheaper.

Blessings,
dave


"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"