Posts: 22
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2007
Aviation, now we are talking my language. (20 years at Boeing in military modification.) I'm neither pro nor con , just want to offer some information.
Darl, idea here: can you post pics so you aren't the bad guy for every helicopter that flys?
The green harvest birds seemed to fly at full low pitch since hey it wasn't their cash. Full low pitch burns more fuel and is louder because it displaces more air. A commercial operation would seldom do that due to fuel costs.
Also just some info , and again Darl correct me if I'm wrong - since the birds have been over our jobsite the last week or so (not that we notice them much over power tools) - in windier conditions, pilots tend feather the rotors out to to change the pitch and speed of the rotors to make the aircraft more stable and make it more comfortable for the passengers. And depending on air temps, how high the inversion layer is (usually where the clouds are and flatten out and go across) will affect how sound is reflected down. Colder, air above is much denser and reflects sound better. Much like a stereo speaker pointed against a wall makes more sound than pointed towards an open yard.
on the bright side, we should be very thankful we don't have B-1B bombers or f4 or F-16 taking off day and night. Aircraft that generate real noise.
-Bob
PS if anything is spelled incorrectly, I dictated this to my lovely assistant - she said it is too painful to watch me type.
Edited by - seasidebob on 11/13/2007 22:07:29
Posts: 118
Threads: 16
Joined: Nov 2007
Darl,
I'm new her to this forum but not new to Hawaii. As a community activist working behind the scenes I want to thank you for taking the bull by the horns and openng a dialogue within a forum which is rapidly gaining momentum within the community at large. I have some bottom lines in terms of businesses which I honestly feel should not be allowed to operate within the confines of the archipelago and its waters, and to me the concept of aviation, in all it's forms is accepted without reservation.
Yes, most individuals would prefer that the noise levels created by your industry did not exist yet over the years it's been my experience to note that the craft no longer esentially ground hug as was the case occasionally in the ninties. In short, I've noticed a significant reduction in noise levels from then to now. I hope your business prospers and thanks again for being willing to take the time to open this dialogue.
JayJay
Edited by - JayJay on 11/14/2007 04:30:41
Edited by - JayJay on 11/14/2007 04:32:49
JayJay
Posts: 1,273
Threads: 41
Joined: Oct 2007
The fact is that the helicopter operators have chosen a occupation that is inherently offensive and unneighborly at its core. There's really no way to make a helicopter any fun for anybody to be around but the people on the joyride. Nobody wants you around. But, I'll point out, helicopters are NOT a naturally occurring phenomenon that we HAVE to live with--they are a nuisance means of purely recreational transport that some people currently have the means to indulge in. And in my experience they indulge in them in a very caviler and entitled manner, with minimum respect for the hassle, noise, and damage their toys create.
Just like jet skis, loud motorcycles, etc., the permissions granted by a society to play with such things once CAN BE REVOKED. It would be really smart of tour operators and pilots to do anything in their power to avoid overflights of any kind--and of course if they did--we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Since they don't--I'd assume that typical entitled FU attitude is in play--ie., hey, we've got a right to fly, and kiss off. . .
Again, I'd say--wrong, you don't have a right to fly, you currently have permission.
The tour operators could fix the issue in a heartbeat if they felt like it. Simply fly high, and as away from anyone's houses as possible. We all know that this will increase operating costs and cut into the profitability of the tours. This is a cost that will have to be borne by the tour operators and the tourists. That's the result of engaging in an inherently unscrupulous and disrespectful business, and it's sensible to maintain a low profile. Flying low on direct routes over houses to save a buck on fuel is not the answer nor an intelligent means of presevering one's business.
Fly over the ocean. If you can't do it safely with the machines you own, get different ones. You've got far better chance of a safe water ditch than you can possibly have landing one of those things in native forest or in my back yard either.
Posts: 4,533
Threads: 241
Joined: Jan 2006
quote:
... But, I'll point out, helicopters are NOT a naturally occurring phenomenon that we HAVE to live with--they are a nuisance means of purely recreational transport that some people currently have the means to indulge in. And in my experience they indulge in them in a very caviler and entitled manner, with minimum respect for the hassle, noise, and damage their toys create...
Just to keep this honest - there are also medivac helicopters, fire/rescue and the feds (you dont think green harvest really went away do you?). About the only ones who I dont think have a helicopter is the HPD.
One of those medivac helicopters saved my dad's life - noisy and fast. We have stand by pilots at Hilo hospital on call 24/7 for just such emergencies. And surprising there are many more of the medivac flights than I realized daily.
Cat I doubt if you'll get any arguments against med flights that's a world of difference. Save a life or an E-Ticket in Disneyland.?
And that's what all of Hawaii will turn into if we let it.
So many things in Paradise to deal with, so little time.
Posts: 209
Threads: 4
Joined: Jun 2005
I certainly did not intend to be 'mean' to 'Darl.' I was just in a severe truth-telling mode at the time of my post. Perhaps I could have been more careful in my choice of words. But there you have it: how I really feel. I believe in right livelihood.
I had just finished reading Darl's comments to all of you on the forum. You were all incredibly polite about the subject. Darl answered each contributor individually and when I finished, I felt like I had just been at a tennis match. For every suggestion, idea, problem, Darl batted the suggestion away. He had an answer which was generally a non-answer. Tried that, thought about that. No real response at all. No real involvement with the issues. I guess I was just reacting to that. I felt frustrated.
Now who is Darl and why is he here? If he really wants to engage and make his company more compliant with folks' needs, why is there no real engagement and discussion? I dunno know--I just go on my feelings.
As for my personal habits--I fly as little as posssible. My last flight was to Maui in 2006. I stay for 3-6 months. I used to love to go once a year, but in the last 12 years have only been able to make it every 5 on average. The air travel is one of my main considerations when I think about making HI my permanent home. Taking a flight in a commercial airliner is quite different than flying in a private jet or a helicopter that carries, what 5 passengers? I consider every trip I make by car, too. I drive less than 100 miles/month on average and I live 27 miles from town. I have lived off the grid for the last 30 years. Of course I still use petroleum products--it's difficult not to, but I keep my use down.
I agree with the person who mentioned it: put your energy use where your ideals are.
I would never take a helicopter tour because of my environmental concerns, my concern for those who might be disturbed by it and the cost. I think it's a waste of money. I'd rather send $$ to Heifer Intl. to help others.
You could have a real adventure (like a man I know on Maui, but who lived on BI for many years)and hike up the volcano to take pictures and spend the night on the volcano. Incredible photos. Or the woman diver I know who took pictures of the lava flowing into the ocean from the ocean.
Soooo. There you have it. Oh, one more thing: there definitely are 'stealth' helicopters. You can hardly hear them. That and elevation are key to the disturbance level. Noise is not the only consideration--what about privacy? Why can you fly over my home and see me sunbathing in the nude in the privacy of my own yard? Why do you have that right? I don't fly over your home and family.
april
april
yea Darl whatsup?
april asks Where are you?
He said he was only chief pilot, I don't think he can fly through all these responses as easy as a flight to the crater, eh?
Who owns Blue Hawaii?
Who owns the other companies?
And yea, what lack of law allows for the invasion of privacy to continue?
Just part of living here.
Posts: 325
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Yup, it got pretty quiet.
Darl, I'm a potential consumer of your product, but I'm concerned about the impact on the locals. Have you explored the possibility of leasing a concession directly from the National Park Service at Volcano N.P.? Yosemite Park in California has concessionaires which operate Badger Pass Ski Area on park property,
http://www.yosemitepark.com/BadgerPass.aspx
and Yosemite Lodge is operated by Yosemite Concession Services Corporation.
http://www.delawarenorth.com/newsroom/newsroom.asp?action=get&dsp=Document_d2&id=337
What is the possibility of you leasing a heliport down at the bottom of Chain of Craters Road, on the uninhabited pahoehoe flows, to fly customers up to the volcano without flying over any residences at all?
If the vog is an issue at that location, what about on the other (East) side near where Kalapana used to be, or building a road westward into Volcano N.P. property from where the road ends at Kalapana, still remaining upwind of the vog while avoiding all residential overflights at the same time?
Have you explored this concept as a real possibility?
How do I know?
Edited by - mgeary on 11/14/2007 20:44:31
Aloha! ;-)
Posts: 968
Threads: 74
Joined: Aug 2007
quote:
We would like to achieve the same level of success here on the Big Island. This cannot be accomplished without active participation and effective communication from all concerned. We would welcome the opportunity to begin this process.
active participation would be nice.... darl?
|
