Blue Hawaiian

[Darl]

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Darl,

Thanks for your input. A couple of thoughts;

First; It seems that it would be a good idea for those in your industry to try to get together and address these issues with one voice. Do you and the others in your industry have a way to get together to discuss issues and voluntarily adopt procedures to solve problems that you have in common? Such as public relations with the local citizenry?

It seems that adjustment from the industry side would be much preferable to adjustment from the legislative side, if the adjustments were sufficient and reasonable.

Second; Perhaps a way to see the volcano and lessen local impact (from Hilo)is to ascend more vertically on takeoff, fly at a higher (say 2000') altitude, up highway 11 until you pass the summit above Volcano and the park facilities; then reducing altitude and turning south across the high desert area (uninhabited) on the west side of the park, then down towards the coast and over to the flow area. Regaining altitude as you fly back over lower Puna, returning to the airport. Or Vice-versa.

The flight path from the Kohala area could be adjusted in a similar way.

You just don't have to be that low over our homes.

Regards, Dan

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We have a very succesful program on Maui which we might be able to work with here. This is a start. The forum is much more convienient than trying to arrange meetings. I can see at this point that I will have to schedule times to address everyones questions. I think on average our pilots do a good job of staying high when the weather permits. We can and will do better but there are regulatory issues involved that are not obvious to all. For example, it would seem a simple solution to fly over the clouds to the eruption site. There are specific regulations which limit our options do so depending on the percentage of cloud coverage, the requirement for visual reference to the surface, descent profiles etc. I guess what I am trying to say is that often what would seem a simple and obvious solution has not been implemented do to reasons not known or fully understood by those not directly involved in the operations side of the issue. I hope the forum will help everyone better understand both sides of the problem.

[Darl]

Hello everyone;

Thank you all for your posts. Our company is in the middle of our annual recurrent training. This process is very time consuming for most of the senior staff. We operate two different aircraft so each pilot must be trained and checked in both. Myself and one other pilot are the only ones in our company qualified to conduct the flight checks, so I am a pretty busy guy at the moment. I can see that I will have to set a scheduled time in which to reply to the many questions that have been asked. I intend to do so, but would appreciate your patience. I will see if I can get some help with this until the training is complete. I sincerely hope that this can become a useful tool in solving some of the issues and in helping everyone understand both sides of the problem. I will set aside time twice a week to devote to the forum starting Monday morning the 19th. Again thank you for your patience, I am not always this busy, but underestimated the time I would need to respond personally to everyone.

[aprild]

Darl,
You don't need to reply to everyone separately. And you can do it all in one reply by just prefacing with a name. I doubt that anyone expects a separate reply, but would like their issue addressed more thoroughly.


april

[dakine]

I think darl's task, if making peace with the restless natives is what we are speaking about, is a rather large one. and as one of the restless I do, with all my heart, wish him supreme success. so I suppose one needs to ask what is a reasonable outcome of these exchanges. I for one am of the opinion that the only reasonable solution to tour helicopters is not to hear them, period. anything shy of this is an intrusion.

the problems of sound pollution in our lives are many. sound pollution is one of the reasons some of us make the choice to live in quiet corners of the world. this choice, as with all choices, has a lot of trade-offs. to live in such isolation makes some things more difficult, acts of consumerism being harder to come by for instance. but the payback, the silence, contact with nature, communities of like minded people, are the rewards that make for a wholesome life. at least that is my opinion.

for those of us that bought that rap about working all our lives, saving all our pennies and finally staking our claim, our little patch of ground means a whole lot. and, if, like me and mine, isolated quiet with a lot of nature mixed in is your number one priority, having a private company selling tickets for people to fly over your house repeatedly does not make a whole lot of sense. I can not think of another instance in which we as a society have set up such an abuse of the individual's property rights. though I see reality as fluid and therefore our norms are always in a state of change. and am hopeful that in the long run the issues of tour helicopters impacts on our lives can be resolved.

when we bought our land the tour helicopters were flying a different pattern, not in our skies. more recently the national park has restricted air tours over the summit of kilauea and bingo! our air is now prime real-estate in the ol air tour business. I always wondered when we'd get our royalty checks which I would assume would be the minimum one can expect when someone makes a buck on something that is yours (joke). I make my living on royalties so my mind works that way. but in all seriousness, the national park had logical reasons to prevent helicopter tours from flying over people while they were standing in awe at the edge of haleamaumau crater. noise just does not belong in the middle of mans interaction with nature. and as liberal as I think our country is with regards to business interest the facts were overwhelming and laws were put into place to support the peoples rights to commune with nature without noise pollution from tour helicopters.

as far as they go, the national park's efforts were great. and I appreciate them every time I have the opportunity to hike around the summit area. the drawback to their efforts is that while developing their rules it appears that nobody considered what the effect on the overall community adjacent to the park would be. and, in the end left the helicopter companies to go their own way as long as it wasn't in the parks. i.e., we living outside the park got screwed. helicopters are the only noise pollution that we experience here. and it, on a clear day, is excessive.

I do not think flying higher is the answer. in fact the higher (to a point way up there) a helicopter flies over the ground the broader the impacted area is. I do think that the only answer is to define paths that have zero impact on private property. and, thankfully with all our islands open space this is possible. there are two ways to achieve this, by laws or by the companies involved just realizing that it is beneficial to them to do so. but that is the ticket, how to help them realize this when their only motive is that of their shareholders. to make a buck. in fact as many bucks as possible. it is the american way as much as my desire to live in peace and quiet is. hopefully there is a way to make everyone happy.

in my last post in this thread I included a link to a map.. lines superimposed on a google satellite image of the volcano area, showing my suggestion for a slight variation in their flight path that would mitigate my personal concerns. but, this is just a small slice of the pie in terms of finding a solution that works for all of us. so, while I look forward to hearing darl's take on my suggestion, I think everyone here that is in the path of the tour helicopters should add their suggestions (with graphical references where possible) so that when darl does have time to address our concerns he is presented with rational, thought out alternatives that stand the chance of actually furthering this discussion towards a productive end.

I think that the whole lower puna area should be avoided by tour helicopters. fly around the island off shore and approach the volcano from the south where there is nobody left to be bothered is a suggestion I would probably make were I to give greater consideration to that area with regards to this issue. but, when I look at a map of lower puna I see some other open corridors that might work. are they wide enough to mitigate the noise concerns of those that live on their boundaries? I don't know, I don't live there. and, I think any alternative route should be suggested by those who are directly effected and have the greatest knowledge of the area involved. so would hope that by the time darl surfaces again we can give him plenty of ideas to discuss. plenty of ways to change things for the better from the communities perspective. he did ask for this. and in the spirit of believing in his sincerity I for one am willing to be hopeful that this forum really can give us this opportunity to positively effect change. call me idealist?


Edited by - dakine on 11/16/2007 14:50:37

[mella l]

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Just to keep this honest - there are also medivac helicopters, fire/rescue and the feds (you dont think green harvest really went away do you?). About the only ones who I dont think have a helicopter is the HPD.

One of those medivac helicopters saved my dad's life - noisy and fast. We have stand by pilots at Hilo hospital on call 24/7 for just such emergencies. And surprising there are many more of the medivac flights than I realized daily.

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Kapohocat, thank you for the reminder of the good that comes from the choppers! We should all stand and applaud those crews!!

Yes love those medivac helicopters for saving Mark from the reaching ocean while clinging to the ice chest! And the reminder that they are there for any of us that happens into the deep water, or out unto the lava fields when we don't belong there, THANK You medivac pilots and crew a hui hou to boot!

mella l

[Thunderfoot]

Well, I just had Blue Hawaiian low over me,in the clouds and mist.It was low!It was yesterday or the day before.I would have to review my video.So,nothing has changed in many years.I want to know if Darl speaks officially for Blue Hawaiian? And will we just get lip service again? No offense,but that is all we've had for YEARS!!! There was a corridor set up,well no one is in it? Self enforcement by pilots is rare not the norm.

[Kapohocat]

If you have the video - can you see the N number in the video?

[Thunderfoot]

I have not looked at the tape yet.It went pretty fast,plus it was misty and very low,so doubt it.However,it was the only chopper with that wierd tail.I do have others with the number.Unfortunately the FAA wants the video within two days.Also,when I have had the number,they tell me,oh no such helicopter exists.It is really frustrating.According to scuttlebutt over here,most the FAA investigators prewarn pilots before they come for an investigation.I do have evidence that they investigate the complaintant,versus the incident.Basically,the locals feel their complaints fall on deaf ears.I will still continue to video and collect evidence.This is a very complicated scene.

[PunaLover]

I got years of pictures and videos of planes and choppers, who can edit video? Could make a Puna under Assault Utube Video.

[Thunderfoot]

yep,that is exactly what we need,someone who knows how to edit video.