Punaweb:Changes in latitudes,Changes in attitudes!

[Menehune]

I took off for a weekend "this" month, just to try and recall the whole year. [?]

Caution - rambling post - but the best I can do! []

I have been an "official" member of Punaweb since 10/09/2007 - "lurked" for many months before that - searched and read archives from its beginnings for specific and general information - read it everyday for the broad area (Puna) nuances no newspaper or blog can cover.

To say that Punaweb has changed is an understatement - but for good or naught! [8]

IMHO - The variety and texture of posts has a sharper "tone", an antagonistic "flavor", with frequent sarcasm - this might appeal to some but not all or most.

IMHO - The posts have become more sophisticated in "skirting" the restrictions of content and civility that the moderator/owner have stated.
Then Again - a moderator/owner can only do so much without "stifling" the flow of ideas and information it is his intention to generate.

1073 of 1676 Members have made 56516 posts in 6 forums over Punawebs entire existence to this point.
Yet only a few members post on a regular basis (daily/weekly).
It is who those few are that have changed Punaweb.

How many members now lurk instead of engage because of these changes? [8)]

I am not a "forum" specialist and I am still learning the "rules" - communicating in this medium can easily be misinterpreted - a humorous observance becomes an insult, etc.

How is Punaweb doing as a "Puna/Hawaii" forum?
How "open" is it - too much - too little?
Is it even possible to "moderate" the content or context of an open forum?


"It's these changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes - Nothing remains quite the same - With all of our running and all of our cunning - If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane" - Jimmy Buffett
[]

[csgray]

I would say there are about four fairly recent members who have led this change. The pattern is to post something pretending to seek input from the community, and then when people respond, their buddies jump in with sweeping statements that reframe the discussion into a liberal vs. conservative diatribe, frequently with insults and rude personal comments. Then they keep stirring the pot every time discussion dies down, so they can keep "winning" the argument by setting up and knocking down straw men.

The overall civility and friendliness of Punaweb has really taken a hit from this behavior. I don't think this is what Rob had in mind when he set up Punaweb, and for me personally this has really diminished this online community. If I wanted to be verbally abused I would hang out on sports forums, what first attracted me to Punaweb was the high caliber of discussion, the quality of information, and the respectful way people disagreed with one another.

I have decided that life is too short to get pulled into this trap, so after getting sucked in a few times, I now have a policy to just not respond to threads started or dominated by this handful of people. If no one plays their game they will go troll somewhere else.

I've been a member of Punaweb for several years now, and I lurked backed in the early days when posts were few and far between; this is a valuable resource and can be a wonderful community. Let's not let a few trolls trash the party.

Carol

[Rob Tucker]

I pretty much agree with your statements and have been observing the shift. Over the course of five years there have been some ebbs and flows in the general ambiance of Punaweb. To a degree that is expected. Sometimes it has become very contentious and two people have been banned. Participation is down, that is true.

I have been taking the measure of what I am beginning to believe is active trolling. If I come to the conclusion that trolling is what is taking place then I will deal with that accordingly and people may be temporarily or permanently suspended.

Meanwhile I think more opinions and answers to the questions you raise are in order.....

Thank you for the topic.


Punaweb moderator

[Jon]

Rob...
that new version of the forum has an ignore function, where users can chose to ignore/not see other users posts.





They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
Benjamin Franklin

[Dave M]

"that reframe the discussion into a liberal vs. conservative diatribe"


BINGO.. Menehune very well said. I stayed away during the election season for this same reason. Rob has made it clear that these types of discussions are not what Punaweb was intended for. Unfortunately this very same atmosphere of "liberal vs conservative" with no middle ground is not only counter productive to Punaweb it is also destroying our Country. The answers to the Countries' problems as well as Punawebs is in the middle ground. But for the diehard Dem. or Rep. there is no middle ground.

Example: The NRA and most of its proponants don't want gang members in the inner city shooting at cops with AK47s.. And most gun control proponants dont want to take away the deer hunter's rifle nor do they want to keep people form being armed for self defense in their homes. (of course there are extremist in both camps) So why is this such a big problem?? No middle ground from either side.. No trust from either side. I wish the best for Punaweb but more importantly I pray for our fractured Country..

Blessings,
dave

"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young

[JerryCarr]

Being someone who values civility, I have noticed the recent trends on Punaweb with some trepidation. I think it is important for everyone to have their core beliefs challenged from time to time, be they liberal or conservative. When such challenges descend into personal attacks or snarkiness for its own sake, however, I think it becomes destructive and accomplishes nothing. In fact, such discourse will almost never change anyone's mind because the target rejects the whole package based on the nasty tone of the message. This is really too bad because some of the good points of all sides are being shoved aside in the verbal melees that sometimes result. Of course this is making an assumption that these posters really want to have a meaningful debate, when some of them just want to stir up a big hu-hu and could care less about changing anyone else's mind.

Of course sarcasm has a place in my world. Just read some of my old posts and you will see plenty of it, but some of what we see here these days is way beyond sarcasm. There are a number of threads around right now that I don't even bother to read after the first few posts, never mind add my two cents.

Cheers,
Jerry

[JWFITZ]

I agree wholly,

There is a place for discourse, even robust discourse. As one who doesn't fit very comfortably in either the liberal or conservative camp--although I'd describe myself as a "progressive"--it's easy to be attacked by the "run to the curb and bark" crowd of either persuasion. Still, I think Rob has done a good job with the "hands off" moderation, and I'd encourage it. It's very easy to ignore the random background noise and noise is a fact of life. Certainly if one wants to play in the low credibility internet world, a lot of background noise is to be expected.

I believe marginal ideas ultimately get demonstrated to be marginal. Then they get discarded. I think it's good to hear them expressed as it only hastens the process.

[Guest]

In todays climate, the truth is often relegated to the taboo.
In fact to the believer, the truth can be somewhat toxic.

What we all need is a heaping helping of tolerance for enlightenment.

Oh, I saw the movie "Gran Torino" the other day.

I thought it was awesome.

[allensylves]

I also much prefer civility and am firmly planted somewhere in the social and political middle. I do not enjoy extreme posts and quickly stop following such threads. Hopefully Rob can continue his hands-off policy and most posts will remain useful and informative. I find most posts at least interesting and often informative. Thanks Rob.

Allen
Baton Rouge, LA & HPP

[pslamont]

This is why I am usually reduced to reading the Building, Farm & Garden and Non-Classifieds and ignoring the rest!