Blue Hawaiian

[Bob Orts]

dakine - send me your or email me and I'll send you my guide to filing a complaint.

[Thunderfoot]

Bob,it is in the AIRFA I will have to dig it out.It might be an amendment ,but I did see it.I am kinda busy,but try reading it again,until I get the chance to find it.Also,how much Native American Indian Law have you done in court? The Native American Center deals with the National Native American Indian Law Library in Boulder Colorado. And as far as the BIA,I can tell you are not Indian.No offense,but Native people find that agency offensive.It is complicated,and I am not going to explain it right now.Also,there is no BIA over here.And the one in California won't help out here ,neither will the DOI.It really is like a foreign country here,things do not work here the way they do where you are my brother.I have tried being nice and doing proper channels,FAA people coming out,maps,letters...Most people have already exhausted all the rememdies you are suggesting,except the Federal Court.Let's keep working together.I will look for the other thing.....laterzzzzzzzz

[Darl]

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Darl you have failed to answer my question if you are representing Blue Hawaiian in an official capacity? Otherwise this whole diatribe is a lesson in futility.The pilots are lower than 500' a lot of the time! People have been collecting video and pics for years ,that are evidence to the contrary of your claim that you guys stay at your proper altititude.Low flights happen all the time;and in fact I just took video of one of yours low over me, in the mist, just the other day.The community is tired of the noise,this makes altitude a mute point.Also,your responses are starting to sound like a spin doctor.Let us get to some meat.Thanks.Happy Holidays.
Citizens Against Overflights Assoc.
http://www.freewebs.com/caoahawaii/

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“Official Capacity” – I am the Chief Pilot for the company. I am not the owner nor do I make policy for Blue Hawaiian. I am responsible for the actions of our pilots. I take this responsibility seriously and am here to see what we might be able to do with regards to improving our operations. Improvements specifically related to minimizing our operational impact on the community.

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-------------------------------------reply- With all due respect Darl,you may be Chief Pilot,but what happens when you are not there babysitting?Pilots have notoriously been in disregard of the community,for years!.A lot of the people reading this site are not local.They can not really understand the uniqueness of this island,and the rare flora and fauna and culture,found no where else in the world!!We want to protect them from industry adverse effects.The community has heard all this before.Then the tour companies behave for a little while,then it is back to obnoxious.We need a permanent solution to this problem,and it isn't just noise!!!You have read the other thread,it is about the Hawaiian hawak,privacy,you are video taping tours and selling it.Any of us could end up on utube in unflattering poses.This issue needs addressment in an official capacity.Your participation is great,but it is not the answer.Your idea of flying over people just once a day is not a solution either.You folks need to be in that Nelson corridor.If the weather is bad for flying,then maybe you shouldn't be flying then? I continue to obtain video of Blue Hawaiian flying questionably.So,whatever you are doing is not working.No wonder the locals get fed up talking in here,this place can not be compared to anywhere else in the world.You can not take what you know to work in California and think it will be good here.Hawaii should change us,not the other way.The mainland is messed up,that is why people want to move out here,then they bring the exact same menatality, of capitalism and industry is everything,that resulted in them moving in the first place.What was the old saying in Rome? Better the barbarian you didn't know than the tax collector you did know.Well,if people come here and want it look like California,then what was the point in moving?This place stayed great because there wasn't a 7-11 until you hit Hilo.These small changes add up, sneak up on you.These overfligths fall in the same category.They are unwanted by the locals.I don't mean to offend,flame me if you will....but the I speak the truth.I have been here 27 years! I have seen and talked to many about this situation,and there needs to be a permanent solution.

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It seems that "No Helicopters" is the only solution that would work for your situation. I can only offer to work on improving our operations with regards to things I can change. I hope you have noticed that the majority of our aircraft have been higher recently.

[Darl]

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Wow,I can't beleive what is going on in this thread.There was already a thread about helicopters,and people didn't see that Darl started his own to avoid the serious ugly truth,well,that is telling.That made the other thread kinda fade off.That is npt right.Talk about hijacking to shed a flatterung light on yourself,and agenda! can't you people see what is happening.I agree with Thunderfoot.I see why locals get tired of talking in here.Okay flame me too!!!!!!!

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Was not my intent to "highjack" anyone. I wanted the community to know exactly who they were addressing on the forum and include everyone who wished to participate, even those who may not agree with the other thread.

[Darl]

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Darl,
Hopefully your efforts as chief pilot will show fruition and result in a substantial improvement in the situation. Also, hopefully you are aware that you will need to revisit the issue with the pilots, I'm sure, like all employees, they will back slide if not monitored.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

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You are right about needing to keep the issue front and center in the pilots minds. They actually have many conflicting priorities in the course of a day and where and how high they are at any particular time is often not the most immediate concern.

[pslamont]

Darl, you are doing a great job at trying to address this issue within the purvue of your position. Some people seem to need to make this a "pissing contest" and I for one am tired of that tactic. This forum has been wonderful because of the sincerity of the people here. Let's all hope that honest effort is respected.

I can not deny that a legal solution is probably called for but whining here isn't furthering that at all. Your thread did NOT hijack the thread that sought support and information for that cuase. You are doing just fine and I personally thank you for your efforts.

Aloha, Pam Lamont

Just another day in P A R A D I S E !!

[Darl]

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Darl, as a person who has gone nose to nose with the USATA on the mainland, I will both personally and professionally say that I commend you for what you are doing. Every successful solution has always started with someone willing to open a dialogue like this. Rational thinking and rational understanding wins out over rabid rhetoric every time.

Do you think that a sit down with calmer residents who can apply common sense to the discussion is a possibility? I'm not talking about a gang up on you, nor a summit to solve the problem, but just a get together for each side to start talking. No government, no groups, no causes, - just two opposing sides of an issue talking.

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YES - This is being discussed. We think it would be a great idea to have an informal meeting. The relationships we develope in this process will directly effect the final outcome. We have had meetings before but did not take advantage of a forum such as this to keep the dialouge going. I would be happy to attend, after the first of the year would be best as I am still preoccupied with training.



Edited by - darl on 12/05/2007 08:00:22

[Darl]

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No one is trashing the industry,It seems you people just don't like the truth.It isn't about Darl.He is making efforts,as acknowledged by evevryone,even Thunderfoot,But what is getting lost in all the nice-ities are the facts that just talking has never solved the problem,or we wouldn't still be talking about it.Facts are facts,these flights are low,people are upset.It is real no matter how light you make of the situation.It isn't if you will crash,it is when.Don't you people see it isn't about a person ,an industry or the like.It is about the facts that people are upset and talking to one pilot isn't gonna solve it.That doesn't take anything away from Darl as a person.He is a nice guy or whatever,it doesn't change the fact that there have been about 333 crashes since 1984,resulting in about 226 deaths.Let us not slap the faces of all those families effected by this industry.And all the other points brought up on the other thread.

so much....and so little time

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I really dont wish to debate all the issues that could be brought into the dialouge, it seems to always distract from the main focus. I am trying to find ways to address the issues related to overflights in the community. I have already made a few changes in our routes and have been working with the altitudes on a few route segments, other ideas are welcome. I do think you need to check your numbers though.



Edited by - darl on 12/05/2007 08:01:19

[Darl]

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Of course nobody thinks Darl will be the salvation for this problem, but it's a start. There are people who could care less about petitions or concerts or selling jam to support a cause, they are interested in solving this problem as best it can be solved. If anyone thinks there will be a complete ban on helicopters so that they will never fly low over a residential piece of property, give me a call because your might also want to consider investing in my Puna company that converts lava to gold or gasoline depending on which price is higher.

As for the statistics on accidents, give me a break. In 2005 alone there were 38,588 fatal car accidents. Are you saying we should ban automobiles? In the last 10 years, over 12,767 children were killed in bicycle or skating related accidents. Are you saying ban all children from bikes or skates?

If you want statistics, use the number of innocent people on the ground who were killed by a falling aircraft and had nothing to do with that flight. Or the amount of damage when an aircraft makes an emergency landing on private property. Now that's hard factual evidence that goes to this issue.

What about instead of asking about the Nelson, Wanda, Billy-Bob or Uncle Frank corridors, how about a map showing recommended flight corridors that would mitigate this issue that everyone agrees upon? That shouldn’t be too hard.

Or, if you don’t want helicopters flying over or disturbing the peace of residents, parks, sacred sites, horses, or wildlife, maybe someone should provide a map showing where all these things are located. I’m sure the majority of people who wants this restriction themselves have no idea where they are. So let’s provide assistance to the pilots by showing them where they are.

While we’re at it, can someone provide Darl with the minimum altitude that would be acceptable for an overflight? Is it 1,000’, 2,000', 5,000’, or whatever is considered safe? I’m sure that would be a great aid to him instead of trying to mind read what people want.

Darl, what do you need from the residents and property owners to help you with this issue?

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Thanks for your participation.

Maps would be a great help. It has been suggested that we could have an informal meeting in the near future. This would be a good time to share what we have in terms of problem areas. I have made several maps over the years for our staff. If we could everyone to create a map indicating their concerns and possible solutions, consolidate the information into a single document, we would have a good common reference to work with.

[Darl]

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Seems to me Darl has made a responsible effort to open dialogue with the forum. All the typing and reading alone is a considerable effort for a busy chief pilot who also flies tours, and I echo the appreciation other contributors have expressed for his active participation in discussions of the noise problem associated with helicopter tours in the islands. I can imagine the joy he experiences when bringing up the latest rants on the monitor. The alternative (tour operations without community input and operator-community dialogue) is less likely to result in solutions that mitigate resident's concerns. Having worked with Darl in days gone by (and even been a free-loading passenger on one of his tours), I can say he's a reasonable character, and probably shouldn't be judged too harshly for his current association with the dastardly Blue Meanies. Darl has put his okole on the chopping block by participating in the conversation, and identified himself openly to all of us mostly anonymous contributors.

Though I'm a Fern Forest resident (new red roof near the Pu'u O'o end of Uluhemalu Darl) and in September and early November routinely experienced noisy plus or minus too d--- low AGL BH airshows during weather which would allow considerably higher overflights, I'm grateful that Darl has braved the hostile crowd in a way that few (if any) less courageous tour operation Chief Pilots have dared. I can think of few individuals more likely to influence the daily operations of the largest air tour operator in the islands than its chief pilot. I hope he'll continue to find the effort worth his while.

Mike H.



Edited by - seekir on 12/01/2007 14:52:30

Edited by - seekir on 12/01/2007 15:52:17

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Thanks for your comments. I have made a few changes recently and would like some input as to any changes you may have noticed.