HPP Grading And Paving

[mikewj]

With regard to HPP in general: Over the years it has been a grave concern to me that there is no equable representation of all owners when it comes to decision making. Under the Bylaws of the Association, it is necessary to attend the meeting in person in order to have a voice in the disbursement of monies. When a motion is put to the membership, it can be passed by a vote of 60% OF THOSE MEMBERS PRESENT. Only in very rare circumstances are motions put to the total membership by written ballot. This means that thousand of dollars can be appropriated and spent by a 60% vote of the Board and a few attendees. I would be surprised if average attendance at a Board meeting exceeded 20 people including the Board.
Also, Board meetings are called for times such as 4:30pm on a workday. How many working people can get to this kind of a meeting?

As things are now, most Association members are NOT represented.

I personally do not feel comfortable being obligated to part of a TWELVE MILLION DOLLAR debt incurred without my consent. I certainly do not want this debt increased, given the current method of procedure.

With the large number of empty lots and absentee owners, the chance of recovering money from these owners in the event of an emergency situation is very low. Foreclosure and forced sale of properties would only serve to depress the value of all remaining properties.

I advocate a return to strict fiscal responsibility. "Neither a lender nor a borrower be". If there is a perceived need, let the Board go to the TOTAL membership with a proposal, then collect cash, then take care of the need. Otherwise, as others have said, I bought Ag lots, and I'm perfectly happy to spend my dollars to drive whatever kind of vehicle is necessary to access my property.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by mikewj

With regard to HPP in general: Over the years it has been a grave concern to me that there is no equable representation of all owners when it comes to decision making. Under the Bylaws of the Association, it is necessary to attend the meeting in person in order to have a voice in the disbursement of monies. When a motion is put to the membership, it can be passed by a vote of 60% OF THOSE MEMBERS PRESENT. Only in very rare circumstances are motions put to the total membership by written ballot. This means that thousand of dollars can be appropriated and spent by a 60% vote of the Board and a few attendees. I would be surprised if average attendance at a Board meeting exceeded 20 people including the Board.
Also, Board meetings are called for times such as 4:30pm on a workday. How many working people can get to this kind of a meeting?

As things are now, most Association members are NOT represented.

I personally do not feel comfortable being obligated to part of a TWELVE MILLION DOLLAR debt incurred without my consent. I certainly do not want this debt increased, given the current method of procedure.

With the large number of empty lots and absentee owners, the chance of recovering money from these owners in the event of an emergency situation is very low. Foreclosure and forced sale of properties would only serve to depress the value of all remaining properties.

I advocate a return to strict fiscal responsibility. "Neither a lender nor a borrower be". If there is a perceived need, let the Board go to the TOTAL membership with a proposal, then collect cash, then take care of the need. Otherwise, as others have said, I bought Ag lots, and I'm perfectly happy to spend my dollars to drive whatever kind of vehicle is necessary to access my property.

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THAT YOU SO VERY WELL PUT

[Lee DeJongh]

Interesting discussion and clear that people are passionate. We own a lot on 4th but don't live there. I do think my opinion should count however, because of the principle of "no taxation without representation". Not being there I am not too concerned about which roads get improved or how but I voted for the proposition because I thought that improvements were needed and it seemed to me a small price to pay. On a separate but related note, it seems to me obvious that with a population greater than 12000, HPP is not rural nor agricultural but well on its way to becoming a city. And, in time, might well rival Hilo. That said I appreciate the long time effort Rob and others make to looking toward the future, which is going to come, whether we like it or not.

[Beachboy]

quote:

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Originally posted by canhle

What I don't understand is that Leilani collect less road fee but got all of their road paved.

canhle

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BINGO!!!Canhle, that is the 12 million dollar question nobody wants to hear! At least not in the HPP Hui Office![]



Handle every situation like a dog,If you can't eat it or hump it,piss on it and walk away...

[Beachboy]

okay besides no roads the infrastructure just plan old sucks big time! Even a rural as Puna is, and it ain't that rural folks! Why can't we get our roads paved, why can't we all have cable,...and by the way....I want my MTV!!!!! Terrible joke that was...sorry[:o)]

APATHY is a real 'Mother ****er',but it raises it's ugly head at every corner of Puna. Puna has plenty of people who want to do something about it too. It's just to bad that the majority of these voices have only legs painted on them..especially out of state landowners!

Handle every situation like a dog,If you can't eat it or hump it,piss on it and walk away...

[JerryCarr]

My resolution for 2008 is to attend and participate in ALL the meetings. I made a start in 2007, but did not make it to all of them. The very least I accomplish by going is entitlement to comment and/or complain with some substance behind me. The history of this whole thing is so shot through with mistakes and misconceptions, that there is no single factor, committee, or person responsible. I have done my share of venting here on Punaweb, but playing the blame game at this point is probably not going to be productive. Coming up with a plan that will work is a lot harder than griping about what didn't.

If all of us here on Punaweb who are concerned show up at the meetings and voice our concerns, I am pretty sure that it will have some impact. I can't think of an easy answer for those who do not yet live here and feel disenfranchised. Doing a massive ballot a la the paving referendum is not practical all the time. Knowing what the board members stand for and voting in those elections might at least produce representatives more in tune with the membership. (These elections have been very low-key, and sometimes nobody runs for one or more of the positions. Apathy sucks. Attending meetings will give us some idea about whether or not we need to re-elect our reps.) Board ballots are mailed to all property owners as far as I know. FWIW, non-resident property owners are not allowed to vote in township or city elections in any jurisdiction where I have ever lived, yet they have to pay their taxes like everybody else. If I were a non-resident, I would make it my business to find out who my rep is and what their ideas are.

Glen calls me the "Railroad Optimist," but I am not always little Jerry sunshine. Fixing HPP's road mess is intimidating, and roads are just ONE of many issues we face.

Cheers,
Jerry

[canhle]

I agree with Jerry that we need to participate to improve the situation. First thing I would look into is how the collected road fee is accounted. For example, how much is collected from the road fee, and how much is spent on road and administrative tasks. And if the amount spent on the works is fair and reasonable.


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My resolution for 2008 is to attend and participate in ALL the meetings. I made a start in 2007, but did not make it to all of them. The very least I accomplish by going is entitlement to comment and/or complain with some substance behind me. The history of this whole thing is so shot through with mistakes and misconceptions, that there is no single factor, committee, or person responsible. I have done my share of venting here on Punaweb, but playing the blame game at this point is probably not going to be productive. Coming up with a plan that will work is a lot harder than griping about what didn't.

If all of us here on Punaweb who are concerned show up at the meetings and voice our concerns, I am pretty sure that it will have some impact. I can't think of an easy answer for those who do not yet live here and feel disenfranchised. Doing a massive ballot a la the paving referendum is not practical all the time. Knowing what the board members stand for and voting in those elections might at least produce representatives more in tune with the membership. (These elections have been very low-key, and sometimes nobody runs for one or more of the positions. Apathy sucks. Attending meetings will give us some idea about whether or not we need to re-elect our reps.) Board ballots are mailed to all property owners as far as I know. FWIW, non-resident property owners are not allowed to vote in township or city elections in any jurisdiction where I have ever lived, yet they have to pay their taxes like everybody else. If I were a non-resident, I would make it my business to find out who my rep is and what their ideas are.

Glen calls me the "Railroad Optimist," but I am not always little Jerry sunshine. Fixing HPP's road mess is intimidating, and roads are just ONE of many issues we face.

Cheers,
Jerry
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canhle

[Rob Tucker]

Apathy and lack of involvement has left the whole Puna District vulnerable to neglect.

I was told recently by a state official that the method of dealing with Puna issues is:

Divide and ignore

For those interested in reversing this trend may I suggest you review the topic:

Can Puna have clout? Friends of Puna's Future

Efforts are underway to chart a different path.

Punaweb moderator

[mikewj]

The following is a letter sent to the President of HPP Owner's Association:

Dear Joanne:

I am a property owner in the Park, and currently live in California. I am in process of building a home on one of my lots on 27th. close to Maku'u. When this home is completed it is my intention to live in it full time. I also own a rental on 21st. close to Paradise.

When I bought these properties I understood that the area had an Ag 1 zoning, and it was my expectation that the area would remain rural. However, it was seen fit to push for a massive financial encumbrance based on the premise that all of the roads would be paved. It would seem that this is far from being true, and I along with other owners have become obligated for a portion of a TWELVE MILLION dollar loan! Since I live my financial life on a 'cash and carry' basis, I am less than serene about this forced debt obligation.

There is already discussion amongst Board members as to foreclosing on properties whose owners have failed to keep their road dues current. With this massive amount of debt, and the subsequent debt service, I would expect more foreclosures, less monies received, and a general devaluation of the remaining properties in the Park as a consequence. It might be prudent at this time to re think the whole plan and to forgo drawing on this line of credit. in my view it would be more sensible to consider making improvements slowly out of cash flow, or go to the membership for a dues increase to provide more working capital.

Along with other Association members, I have become concerned that there seems to be no clear plan as to how the road paving funds are to be allocated.

Could you please tell me when the work will start, where it will be done, what will be the scope of the work and when is completion anticipated?

It is my understanding that a committee was formed to oversee this process. I have also heard that there has been a reshuffle of the committee members. Would you please let me know who is currently heading up the committee?

Another concern is the lack of timely publication of the minutes of meetings; at this writing the most current minutes online are for the October 17 2007 meeting. When do you expect minutes for the remainder of 2007 to be available?

Thank you for your attention. A copy of this letter has been posted on Punatalk.

[Rob Tucker]

I don't live in HPP. I know that $12 million sounds like a massive amount of money. I understand that there are approx. 8,800 private lots in HPP. If those figures are correct and all lots are apportioned equally the average bill per property would be $1,364.00.

I have an estimate of over $5,000 to pave my driveway in Pahoa- about 75" long. The $1,364.00 amount for HPP (per lot) doesn't sound terribly scary except it may sound quite low.