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Joined: Jan 2008
EXACTLY!
The only reason I was able to relocate is because I got help from family.
When you consider that 90% of Hawaii's food is imported, and so many families live on the beach or in cars or squat, and so many local people end up in jail (many of them shipped to mainland facilities), and the obvious fact that tourism is the state's #1 priority- do the math. The medical system stinks unless you can afford to pay top dollar for care. The schools are a joke. CPS makes huge money from taking kids away from families who are busting their butts and HAVE housing, the prisons make huge money from prison industry (I wrote a 15 page paper on that in college). And the local people who join the military keep getting sent to "hamburger units". As a former military kid, and being someone who pays attention, I can honestly say that the percentage of Hawaii resident service deaths is suspiciously high.
It seems to me that the state is trying to get rid of everyone they can't force into cleaning the toilets and cooking the food of the ultra-wealthy who have all the power.
Breathe. Relax. Focus.
Breathe. Relax. Focus.
This kind of blows my mind!
Maui Planning Commission Member Bruce U’u of Paia said the county lost 10,000 longtime Maui residents last year primarily because of a lack of affordable housing. The county must move faster, U’u said.
I wonder where I can find out the exact stats on this?
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Coming home soon!
Posts: 1,727
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Joined: Feb 2006
For many decades the median price of a house was approximately 2.8 times the average income. So, figure someone makes $16 an hour, they would get $33,280 annual before taxes income. Deduct 25% for taxes they then have an annual income of $24,960. Multiply that by 2.8 and the median price of housing that single person would have been buying was $69,888. Then it became common for both adults in a couple to have a job and pay towards the mortgage so couples were able to pay $140K for a house instead of merely $70K. Price of houses went up to where it needed two incomes to pay for them.
Seen any housing in those price brackets lately? Maybe in Oklahoma! With tourist/service jobs, they don't have any really high paying wages so our residents can only afford to buy houses in that sort of price range. It is also why many folks buy a house and then rent out a couple of the rooms to pay the mortgage or have multiple families sharing a house.
Housing is in that price bracket in some areas of the mainland. One person can afford to buy a small house on just one income so a couple who moves to the mainland can afford to have children and afford to have a parent stay home to take care of them.
Other than folks leaving since they can't afford housing, a problem we have with the high cost of housing and the folks that stay is that in order to afford to pay for a place to live, most families have all the adult members out working one or two jobs. There isn't anyone to teach the kids and the kids can't learn the proper sorts of morals or social skills from television and the school system.
We can build inexpensive houses and somehow limit the buyers to residents. Price the houses that one person's income can pay for them so there will be a way for them to afford to have and properly raise children. Or we can provide high paying jobs somehow so folks can afford to pay for the high cost of housing. Or we can just watch all of our college educated children leave for mainland jobs and watch the exodus of folks leaving.
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
Posts: 229
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Joined: Dec 2004
Hotzcatz got it right with the break down of housing to income ratios. How can you swing a house payment of $2k a month plus all the other bills on $10 an hour? Housing cost have gone out of control all over the country. For example, Houses on the "number streets"(42nd, 54th, 101st, 39th) in Los Angeles are 500K. Houses that are right on top of each other, so close you can here the neighbors pots & pans making noise at super time. Homes for 500K that are run down former crack cocaine shops. $500K for a home where gang bangers hang out all day and and fire guns and commit crimes. It's crazy to think anyone who could afford a $500K home would live on 43rd & Main st in LA, but they do.
As far as the exodus, why would a family live with two other families in a 2 bedroom house in Waipahu?, when they can have a home in Henderson Nevada thats damn near 3K square feet for less than rent on Oahu and have a decent job to pay the bills?
Migration is a better word than a displacement in this case. Why would you want to suffer just to hold on to a dream of what Hawaii used to be? Hawaii "makes" very little in the area of industry. The economy is based on consumption and not production. If you want to get the foot off the working peoples necks, repeal the Jones Act. That single peice of legislation adds about %30 mark-up on all imported goods in Hawaii. Agriculture could save Hawaii But it's an effort that would take the help of the state to accomplish.
As far as "rich people" taking over Hawaii thats not a fair statement either. In this country when you go to school, work hard and live a law abiding life you will be rewarded. It's just a cop out. Playing the blame game instead of doing a "life skills" inventory and figuring out what are you doing wrong, is much easier for some folks to do. I'm not going to feel any shame in the life I live, because i know I paid my dues. Don't be jealous of the things that I have or the place that I live. Don't be mad because your barely getting by with your highschool dipolma and 4 kids under 4 years old and a "babby momma" who is preggers now. I depend on ME and my children depend on ME. I will take them where I feel we have the best chance to have a "good life". When I consistantly hear employers state "we can't find people to pass a drug test" that irks me. Now a drug test to flip burgers is dumb, a drug test to drive a tour bus is smart. Still you have choices to make, be a loser who smokes weed all day and cry's foul when a guy making things happen comes by or change your life.
So your saying you love weed and crank so much you can't quit to pass a piss test? really does that pass the smell test ?
Stop blaming people with money for the ill's of Hawaii and start trying to figuring out why your a loser.
Posts: 2,653
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Nate,
I agree with much of what you said. A lot of truth there. However, not everyone has an aptitude for college and not everyone has an entrepreneurial nature. This is good. There are many honorable jobs that are required in our society than don't require college or an entrepreneurial spirit. I don't think you want an endless supply of immigrants being brought in just because they are willing to work cheap and live with multiple households per single family structure. There does need to be incentives for those who are driven to success, that's what our western society was built on (capitalism works), but all honest jobs should be capable of supporting our citizens with a humane standard of living. The unreasonable escalation of Real Estate in recent years has adversely affected the ability of those in the blue collar and service industry jobs to do this. Not just in Hawaii but in many large pockets across the country. I don't have much sympathy for those who by choice, choose to destroy their value as employees through substance abuse, nor do I think I should support someone else's poor reproductive decisions.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Posts: 2,149
Threads: 90
Joined: Feb 2006
I've posted this before, so please forgive me, but I think it bears repeating. Last graduation season, KITV did a news report on the honors grads from a Honolulu high school. These kids had all been awarded scholarships, had achieved high grades in honors courses, and many had also been involved in community improvement projects. When the reporter asked these "best and brightest" how many of them expected to be living and working in Hawaii in 10 years, only two out of about twenty held up their hands. The few who gave reasons on camera cited lack of economic opportunity and high living costs.
The Jones Act is just one part of the picture, although I agree that it should be repealed. It basically assures that the entire population pays more for everything so that a few hundred individuals and a few companies are guaranteed higher incomes than a truly competitive market would produce. The bigger picture is that we have a lot of entrenched economic interests (both labor and corporate) who are well enmeshed with the political system. This "good old boy" network has even managed to get the people who suffer as a result of this system to vote for politicians who perpetuate it. (IMHO, the recent big box fiasco at the County Council was another manifestation of this.)
Co-opting gullible voters is an even better developed art form here than elsewhere. (Sometimes they do this by smearing any proposed changes as anti-Hawaiian.) The result is a system that reliably votes liberal Democratic, but is one of the most internally conservative you will find anywhere. Remember the howls of outrage that went up when Ed Case ran for Senator? The sad truth is that Hawaii will have to change some things to remain Hawaiian. Can it change and still remain paradise? I think so, or I wouldn't be here participating in the process.
Cheers,
Jerry
Posts: 345
Threads: 22
Joined: Dec 2007
I think the problem has been going on for awhile. the state opened up
jobs for out of state americans only recent. it was not like years
ago and started this mess. there are jobs in hawaii everywhere. sure
the pay is low. the issue i see is rent so high. i can get around on
a bike or bus (if the transportation is there, not all islands have a
bus line). i also dont see car pooling here. it was big years ago
when gas prices shot up.
Posts: 116
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Joined: Apr 2006
This is a really interesting topic and lends itself to all kinds of speculation.
A friend and former employee of mine is moving back to Oahu in June after he has finished his Fellowship. He is a physician and has accepted a position at Queens. His family is from there and he grew up on Oahu. He's a little apprehensive about costs there after living here where 130,000 buys a good house in good condition 1500 sq ft 3 bedrooms 2 baths and the schools are top notch. with no crime. To me, what is interesting about this is the fact that he will go back with some first hand knowledge of how other parts of the US operate. Will it make a difference? I don't know.
Re the 10,000 leaving each year, I have two speculations. First, they are the best and the brightest and most ambitious and therefore are a real loss to Hawaii. Second, that as they can, they will return, also bringing outside views. Mauians joke about Las Vegas being a Maui suburb.
When they return will they be as content with the ole boy network as they seem to be now? Don't know, but HAwaii seems to be rapidly sliding into third world conditions for no good reason that I can see.
One last speculation. I speculate that a sizable portion of immigrants to Hawaii are retirees. These are good because they bring money without taking jobs. But they are not good in that they don't demand as much from government re infrastructure. Ie They don't have children so the quality of schools is not as important. They don't commute to work so the quaity of roads isn't as important. And since they are outsiders, the powers to be feel more comfortable ignoring them. These are my speculations and are worth as much as you paid for them.
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Joined: Feb 2008
quote:
Originally posted by Lee DeJongh
When they return will they be as content with the ole boy network as they seem to be now? Don't know, but HAwaii seems to be rapidly sliding into third world conditions for no good reason that I can see.
Why? Look at local government! They are dumb or corrupt, well … most likely both.
Andrew
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Born to ride, forced to work.
Andrew
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Born to ride, forced to work.
Posts: 1,069
Threads: 266
Joined: Sep 2006
quote:
The State of Hawaii used to make it a requirement that you be a resident of Hawaii to be eligible for a State job. Now that anyone can apply, many State jobs have been given to Out of State residents, thus taking away jobs from local residents. Many of them end up on the beach.
Huh!?!%#@ State jobs given out of state folks? Wow, that news to me. Can you give me an example please "D". I was always under the impression that state jobs were like 'City & County',jobs! Meaning that nepotism was the rule of thumb probably more than we want to believe. The whole work system for 'State' & 'City & County' needs to be worked over. A lot of people in Honolulu who work for the City & County of HAwaii when asked where they work commonly say, " I work for "Sitting & Counting". You only have to use a bit of you imagination to figure this one out! Most of these workers are there for only a hand out.
My cousin use to work for the state. His job was clearing trails along state parks for hikers along some of the steep ridges on Oahu. Some of his co-workers use to give him a hard time....for working...go figure. They said he made them look bad. My cousin figures the quickest way home from an 8 hour work day, is to work the complete eight hours! But his co-workers feel that hiding somewhere & sleeping 6 hours is the fastest way to get home. But this seems to be the overall general attitude towards state jobs ,and city & county jobs. Which really causes a cluster-F**k So these type workers who really play a part in displacing local residents too.
I offer you peace. I offer you love. I offer you friendship. I see your beauty. I hear your need. I feel your feelings My wisdom flows from the Highest Source. I salute that Source in you. Let us work together for unity and love.
--Mahatma Gandhi.
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