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quote:
Originally posted by Damon
quote:
Originally posted by YurtGirl
......Damon, any dog has the 'Potential' to harm a person. A pre-emptive strike of murdering the animal is not a logical solution. A pre-emptive strike of being wary and carrying a big stick/water/pepper spray, etc, is a logical solution.
I don't think I was ever talking about preemptive strikes. However, if Any dog was about to harm my child... that dog better think twice[ ]
Thus, my initial post... people control your dogs.... You don't control your dog...and it comes on my property where my child plays outside sometimes unattended.... I come out and see a dog about to prounce.... you know I'm doing something immediately to that dog.[} ] Why wait until the dog has already pounced upon my child in my yard?
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The more we speak up... the more they will listen.
"I will kill any dog that may potentially harm my child". That is the statement I was referring to, Damon. I agree that it isn't smart to wait for violence to occur before taking action in the situation you describe, or any situation where you don't know/trust a particular animal. I just think it would be a bit (read, EXTREMELY) over eager to put a bullet in the brain (or Kung Fu it...[ ] ) of an animal whose intentions you are largely unaware of. It would be a reaction based out of fear, one that you may regret and regret having your child witness. If there were no other alternatives then it would be different, but with so many more humane alternatives...
Melissa Fletcher
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"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
From my experience, the police department has no interest in enforcing the barking dog law. Unless the dogs bark reliably non-stop, your chances are poor at getting any results. The police will come, but it can be hours later, then they have to sit and personally hear the barking for the 20 minutes (or whatever the statute says).
Then YOU have to file a complaint against your neighbor and YOU have to take your neighbor to court. In other words, the police won't do it, so get ready for your neighbor to hate you forever. Then neighbor gets fined some small amount until the third time.
It's hardly worth it.
However, if you TRAP an animal that's roaming, using Humane Society traps, and then get the animal picked up, the owner has to come redeem it for cash. You cannot, by law, hurt the animal that is roaming. Then repeat what I said about your neighbor hates you forever, and so do the friends and family, etc..
I've had barking dog problems at every house hear, which makes five houses. North Kohala was very bad, got the full "I'm living in a kennel" effect ... at a rental in Ainakea, those lots were 15,000 sq ft, and they all seemed to have dogs that would all howl in unison when any one dog began to bark.
I did know this would be a part of life in Hawai'i. It just is. I didn't come here expecting to be able to change it, because it's so much a part of the local culture. People grow up listening to barking dogs and they simply don't hear them. It's just white noise to them, and they have no idea how disturbing it is to people who have this weird thing about peace and quiet. Because it doesn't bother them, they think you're a jerk (insert stronger expletive) when you complain.
Not sure there's a solution, but the traps from the humane society could be one way to make the point that your property is your property ... violence isn't the answer and will likely produce violent retribution ... don't go there unless you want to be in a war, is my opinion.
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My earlier point about the chipmonk is that here in Hawaii we have a minimum number of animals to contend with. Every animal carries some potential for threat and if one wants to be completely worried about such potentials we should count ourselves lucky.
We lack coyotes, cougars, squirrels, bats, copperheads, rattlesnakes, bears, raccoons, possums, rabbits and rabies in general. Dogs are a true concern, I agree, but the suggestion that one might consider fencing one's property before you haul out the guns and poisons seems a good one. Beyond that carry a stick or pepper spray when walking.
I've had to deal with an obnoxious neighbor with a nasty dog. A real concern. Deal with the neighbor - he is the real problem. It's his dog. If he isn't happy with complaints tell him to just get used to the complaints or control his animal.
The biggest threat is the crazy people and thieves.
If I found myself in a neighborhood so brudened with crazies that I was constantly in fear I might consider that I live in the Puna equivilant of South Central L.A. - and move.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Even generally sensible people may react irrationally when the topic is controlling their dog(s). It can be much like asking some people to control their children. The change in how a person acts towards you after complaining about their dog can be night and day and last as long as you know them.
Sadly, I've had many opportunities to observe this phenomenon. My mother was very involved in trying to get existing barking dog ordinances enforced, and it just about ate her life ... and as nicely as she always asked, more often than not, a polite request generated a permanent feud, including starting up other passive-aggressive behavior that was deliberate.
It's not as simple as informing people "there's an ordinance that says thus and such" and you need to act responsibly as a dog owner. Would that it were.
In the video that spawned this thread... The owner lived in a fenced place.
It wasn't until he went outside of his property that the dog went after him and his daughter.
How do we control "unowned" dogs?
How can we enforce others to keep their dogs on their property?
Why should people walking down a street have to worry constantly about getting attacked by a dog(s).
Why the need to carry a stick or pepper spray?
Yes we lack all of the above mentioned animals that Rob just mentioned, however, you don't hear anyone complaining when anyone kills any of those aforementioned animals.
Just because people often classify a "Dog" as a pet... from what I have read and learned, many of the "Dogs" that are causing the problems are not owned by anyone.
Fencing your property only goes so far. What happens when the dogs start digging under the fences? Fencing is also an expense that many people may not have the ability to afford.
Why not create some legislation that would protect home owners from stray dogs?[^]
Should we ask the county to start funding "Dog Catchers in Paradise".
I'll set up the company if the money is there [8D]
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The more we speak up... the more they will listen.
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How do we control "unowned" dogs?
You actually can't. You just wish you could.
How can we enforce others to keep their dogs on their property?
You actually can't. You just wish you could.
Why should people walking down a street have to worry constantly about getting attacked by a dog(s).
Because they are there. There will always be something "there" to worry about. How about speeding cars? Stray bullets? Falling coconuts?
Why the need to carry a stick or pepper spray?
Because you can and your personal safety will, first and foremost, be your responsibility. The only truely safe alternative to living in this world might be a padded cell somewhere
I worry more about Brown Recluse Spiders. They are nasty and you can't see 'em coming. They can kill if they bite you in the wrong place.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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The dangers of dangerous dogs are all too familiar to my neighborhood, lower end HPP/Makuu.
A few years ago, a healthy 35 year-old woman was attacked and mauled in the street on 2nd, within sight of her own home.
Ten days later, the same dogs attacked another person.
About a month later, she died due to liver failure -- dog bites are extremely nasty.
Just two weeks ago, at the house of our immediate next-door neighbor, a visitor -- female and not very fit -- went outside and tripped over a stone, falling to the ground. Our neighbor's dog attacked and shredded her hands and arms before the owner could pull it off. She left in an ambulance.
Brown spiders? You only got to be able to see them before they bite you and get out of the way. That doesn't protect you from attacks by dogs, especially after they have the taste of blood...
Dangerous / viscous dogs are a very serious issue in rural Puna.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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Doesn't any one take these "owners" to court for criminal and financial liability after an attack.
Most home owners liability policies exclude the very breeds of dogs that have had these issues in the past. This is not a new event, trying to defend even a civil suit without support from an insurance company would result in a major setback to ones lifestyle and home ownership, if they are renters go after the landlord for keeping an unsafe premises, maybe that would help an irresponsible person to come to the conclusion its easier to train, restrain or not own a vicious animal...
I think any lawyer (can we spell contingency) worth his salt would have a field day with this, allowing an animal to attack someone is major in terms of liability both civil and criminal
or am I missing something?
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quote:
Originally posted by Bullwinkle
Doesn't any one take these "owners" to court for criminal and financial liability after an attack.
http://starbulletin.com/2007/10/13/news/story03.html
malia paha o lohe aku
perhaps they will hear
"a great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
w. james
You actually can't. You just wish you could.
What if the County had instead of a Humane Society... they had an actual "Dog Pound" that was funded by the county? This place would have enforcement officers that would catch dogs that are loose and bring them to a kennel. If unclaimed after so many days... Euthanized.
How can we enforce others to keep their dogs on their property?
You actually can't. You just wish you could.
Through stricter laws you could. (see above "Dog Pound/Catcher" scenario)
Why should people walking down a street have to worry constantly about getting attacked by a dog(s).
Because they are there. There will always be something "there" to worry about. How about speeding cars? Stray bullets? Falling coconuts?
Speeding cars, Stray Bullets are fired by people. Stray uncontrolled dogs need to be stopped... just as the people speeding in cars and shooting stray bullets. Maybe if the coconuts would fall on the stray dogs that would solve the problem.
Why the need to carry a stick or pepper spray?
Because you can and your personal safety will, first and foremost, be your responsibility. The only truely safe alternative to living in this world might be a padded cell somewhere
I don't think one should have to carry weapons or spray in todays society to be safe. I think the dogs should be gotten rid of!
I worry more about Brown Recluse Spiders. They are nasty and you can't see 'em coming. They can kill if they bite you in the wrong place.
Well if your worried about the Brown Recluse Spiders here in Hawaii...then your really paranoid [ ]..... because there are none. I believe you are talking about the Violin Spider which is a cousin of the Brown Recluse.[ ]
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