HAWAI'I: a US state or a sovereign nation

[LeeE]

How about a sovereign nation and a Dutch "Territory"?

Why?

Well they'd bring with them their excellent public transportation system, uniformly good schools and universities, an egalitarian social ethic, and by our standards, almost no poverty. Oh, and freedom and democracy.

Oh, and Dutch pancakes. Delicious!

Aloha,
Lee
http://members.cruzio.com/~lionel/event

[DrJ]

I love how my post was used to start this thread even though I stated at the very beginning that this is what I wanted to avoid.

It's a question of laws and legality. Sovereign it might be, but the Kingdom of Hawaii is unable to enforce its own laws or make legal decisions for its people that will be enforced. Right now the United States does so, therefore; as citizens, denizens or occupied inhabitants, we should have all the legal rights granted United States citizens. Such as was being discussed in Dirks post.

I honestly have no opinion on this matter. I never even knew that a movement for sovereignty was active in Hawaii until we did research into moving here. I would venture to say that the majority of the US has no idea such a movement exists. There are similar movements found in most states in the US, especially in the South, which has had sovereignty movements since before the Civil War and continues today. I knew about those because my grandparents are from Florida and very much Southern.

If it's what you believe in and want, I see no problem in peacefully protesting for the rights you want. The minute a movement like this begins to get violent or violate laws (whether you believe them to be valid or not), it will become very difficult to get the support and recognition needed to make a difference. Either way, be prepared for a long haul. Big changes don't happen quickly, but they can happen.

[oink]

quote:

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There is no question that Hawaii was the subject of a corporate/military takeover. That being said, the days when Hawaii is or could be a sovereign nation, except in spirit, are probably over.

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That about says it in a nutshell.

I agree with a fair amount of the rest of Glen's post.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by Glen
The best hope for Hawaiian culture is this: seduction. The world loves the remnants of Hawaiian culture.

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On the surface, it may seem that way, But truth be told, people don't give a rat's behind about the Hawaiian culture. They care about the Hawaiian Flavor SHOW.
Tourists want the full production of Hawaii.
New residents want the Hawaii they saw in that show.

Hawaiians need to produce that show with full orchestra, flashing lights, sparkles and glitter. They need the fireworks, exploding scenes, and a chorus line of legs from heaven.

Open a cultural center to show the real Hawaiian culture and you'll be bankrupt by noon. Give them what they want and they will pay. The power the Hawaiians have is only in their ability to empty the wallets of those who come for a visit or to live the fake dream of tropical life.

Think about this, for over a century the Native Americans fought peacefully and violently for their sovereign rights. The rights they did receive never produced anything tangible, only the valuable lesson that America will never accept them. So, they didn't fight the system, the embraced it. They gave the America and visitors what they wanted. Shows, Pow-Wows for tourist, Trinkets and blankets. AND, they gave America the discount cigarette stores, liquor stores, Casinos, discount industrial development, race tracks and all the things Americans will pay the "injins" for.

Americans could care less about anyone else’s culture. All they want is to "Americanize" a culture to fit their fantasy. Nobody moves to Hawaii to become a Hawaiian, or live like Hawiians once live, they move to live the dream but with all their mainland baggage in-tow. Give them that show they want and take from them what you want, their money!

[mgeary]

quote:

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Originally posted by kani-lehua

just curious? would most people living here want to be considered a denizen--having dual citizenships? would they want to be naturalized? or, would they retain just their US citizenship?

...to be a hawai'i national, one would have to be born here; be naturalized or be a denizen. it has nothing to do with race...

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I was born in the Territory of Hawaii in late 1957. I already have a U.S. birth certificate from the Territory of Hawaii. Where can I apply for my Hawai'ian birth certificate? Of course I'd want dual citizenship, unless that meant paying taxes to two different countries. Hmmm, I think I need a lawyer.

Aloha! ;-)

[runnergirl]

[quote]Originally posted by Glen

Except for South Louisiana, I have never been to a state that felt so foreign. [quote]

This statement made me LOL. I grew up in South Louisiana and know exactly what you mean.

[Easygoing]

May be better off living in Costa Rica, the Ticas are more accepting of US citizens than the locals are in Hawaii. The vast majority of Costa Ricans are Spanish Europeans and are not as foreign and unfriendly to mainlanders as the uptight locals in Hawaii, who want to have a seperate country.

Always do what evers next.

[Carolann R]

When I worked at the airline one of the rules that Costa Rican gov't enforced was that no men should have long "hippie-like" hair. They stated they would not be allowed into the country! LOL

Carrie

http://www.carrierojo.etsy.com
http://www.vintageandvelvet.blogspot.com

"Freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn baby's head..." U2

[kani-lehua]

quote:

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Originally posted by morganlady

Help the mainlanders who don't understand the sementics of all this! I know Kentucky is a Commonwealth, not a state like Michigan. I don't know what THAT difference is. Also, under Pres. Clinton, Hawaii was issued an apology, right? What does it call itself in official paperwork?
What is the status of Hawaii, the group of islands regarding the nation of U.S.A.? (All I know is the new penny began the same year 1959.)
Thanks

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it's called the "apology resolution" united states public law 103-150 passed by congress and signed by clinton on november 11,1993 one hundred years after the illegal occupation and overthrow of the monarchy.

hawai'i was declared independent in 1842. it's constitution 0f 1863 is still in effect as of today along with the many international treaties. my question then is: if the kingdom of hawai'i already exsits, why then are the sovereignty movements striving towards nationhood?

and just to clarify, i am kanaka maoli but do not belong to any group. just presenting the facts as documented by blount's account, cleveland's address to the senate and house of representatives and clinton's "apology."




malia paha o lohe aku

perhaps they will hear

[Johnnycake]

Bob I'm sorry but I don't think your comments really reflected all new comers to Hawaii. I think we come in different colors with different dreams, hopes, and faith that someday we can help build a better Hawaii for all.
I believe Glen said it best. Mahalo.