A carbon neutral big island?

[Rob Tucker]

Self sufficiency doesn’t necessarily come cheap if you want to maintain a lifestyle. The upside is the person who invests in such systems will not be dependent on others.

I found a few sites on steam power:

http://www.steamoramapa.com/

http://old-engine.com/windsor.htm

http://www.steamtraction.com/archive/4198/

There's a lot of old steam power activity in England it seems.

[Guest]

While were talking about systems...

Forbes is reporting This system that supposedly converts any car into a hybrid.

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Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.

[MarkP]

From my reading I have gotten the impression that the average low pressure steam engine system that your average do it your selfer could handle would be quite low efficiency, like 5% to 7%. This means some mechanical energy and a lot of waste heat which you will throw away if you can't find a use for it. You could heat water but I think you will not need that much hot water. Still, if you are only burning quava and if you are burning it efficiently without creating a lot of pollution, it could work.

Are there any off the shelf stirling engines to be had out there? My understanding is that a stirling engine could be 15% to 20% efficient and would not need the steam system.

[MarkP]

JWFITZ:

How are you prepping the fuel for the wood gassifier? If you built a drying shed or silo could you improve the quality of the fuel?

[Kapohocat]

quote:

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Originally posted by JWFITZ

8 panels would be a maximum of 800 watts, if they were big ones, and half that figure is more realistic. The inverter reflects that. So, we're looking at a .5 kw array that will make a super optimistic amount of 5 kwh of electricity a day. That will cost you 5 x .45c= two dollars and fifty cents a day. Assuming it's never rained or been cloudy in the last eight years you've got yourself 912 dollars of grid power a year, for a cost of nearly 3000 bucks a year. That's better than the 2 dollars a kw I offered up off the cuff, but dang expensive electricity at 1.50 a kw at the absolute minimum. The real figure I expect is about double that.

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Hmmmm.... I will start to wade out in deep water but here goes... the first system I talked about runs 2 houses (1000 SF each) with each having 1 fridge, 1 coffee maker, 1 microwave, 1 water pump and lights each plus 2 yurts with coffee maker and microwave, and asst lights and other stuff like cell phone charger & PC, washer/dryer plus there is enough power to run a HUGE stereo system and accessories for their weekly parties - basically 4 bedrooms (they are a B&B and I just have too many visitors!).

My house (2400 SF) with 3 fridges, 1 WH, 1 stove, 2 microwaves, 2 coffee makers, and same asst lights, cell phone chargers, TVs, 1 washer (dryer is gas) and PC's runs about $450-500/mo for 6-8 people (6 bedrooms & my office).

I dont get the numbers well but I do see these as being pretty equal usuage but the cost looks like theirs $2900 + fuel (system over 8 years) and mine is $4800-$6000/yr.

So how would I could I figure out what they use (they are my friends and would allow me to be neile) - cause I know what my KWH usuage is on my bill.

Update - my friend said the panels are 130 watts x 8 panels = 1040 watts.

[gtill]

Back to steam, finally found some good functional steam rigs, selling publicly. 2cyl, 3hp for under 3K.(will run a 50kw generator), and a 2cyl 20 hp unit for under 7K. Made in US.
From India, a complete 2hp 2cyl unit plus boiler, for 2k? Good web page anyhow plenty selection. "tinytech" (google it), or "steampower.com" (click links or site links?) Am following up on shipping and partiulars.
Very Promising!

[Jared I]

This was on the email from Biodiesel Pacific

"We are currently planning for the Big Island plant, working with the County on the used cooking oil and also a couple of potential feedstock growers."

They are doing the same thing in SoCal. First they made WVO (waste veg oil) into a hazardous waste, really. Then you need an approve vehicle to collect even 5 gallons. Then you need a 100K bond and insurance to collect. Then Mom and Pops resturants can be sited/ticketed for not disposing of the WVO to an approved vendor. Then you tank will start being dipped if you run a diesel. And on and on...

Biodiesel Pacific is just trying to corner their market supply away from the small independent users. The county will make money and with the help of Biodiesel Pacific. Here is SoCal I have even seen small video cameras put up by WVO collector companies to catch anyone dipping there supply, sure some people rip them down. Biodiesel Pacific is part of the problem no the answer.

[JWFITZ]

In terms of the solar, that fleshes things out a bit, Kapohocat. You're using at least 3 times the power they are. If you assume that the array makes 1 kw for 10 hours a day, which it doesn't, but lets assume, and there's no clouds in the sky at all for a year, the maximum that array can generate is 1kw x 10 hours a day, x 365 days. Which is 3650kwh, which at this moment will cost you 1642 bucks a year in electricity. In my experience, you better figure that you'll get half the rated power of the array, but whatever. You're using vastly more power. You can't compare "running a house" as there's lots of ways to run a house. The cheapest greenest way to go is to be on the grid and live like you run on solar. They have a very expensive, very large array, but they are also going out of their way to use very little power. Their power is costing twice to three times yours at least. That's their choice, I disagree as it's mostly a feel good thing, but that's their choice.

There's nothing wrong with solar panels in principle. The question is simply whether they're efficient, green, and benign. And the answer is no, at this level of technology. It is extremely fuel intensive to manufacture solar panels, and the reason most of the best panels are built in Europe is because they are very heavily subsidized to minimize manufacturing costs. It's questionable whether a solar panel will ever generate enough power to make up for what it cost in BTU's to manufacture the thing. It all looks good, but the carbon footprint is probably 5 times that of just running a generator.

I'm not being deliberately negative. The key isn't technology, it's lifestyle. The one and only answer we have is to live vastly less consumptively. There is no technology remotely imaginable that will perpetrate the livestyles we now possess.

[missydog1]

I applaud you guys for looking into better less polluting ways to live, I really do. And you should do so for your own sakes and your own savings ... what a great discussion of alternative systems! I'm in awe of all the knowledge being pooled on this site.

but as far as making a difference in this state, and I don't see that the Big Island will feasibly be separated from the whole state, all the ecological savings in all of Puna amount to zip in the face of consumption in Honolulu alone.

I say this because I was thinking of Punaweb last week as I looked out on Honolulu from a 35th floor hotel room at night. The sheer amount of lights burning all night, every night, the A/C units pumping away, the streets bumper to bumper with cars at all hours.

I couldn't help but think how one night of consumption in this city outweighs all the fuel-saving efforts everyone here makes in a year, or maybe a lifetime ... (in other words, no real measurements, just an impression in the face of vast unchecked thoughtless consumption.)

So what is to be done about Honolulu? (and the rest of Oahu?)

I do wish the visitors to the island could be persuaded into doing less joyriding. They have no idea or could care less how much all the needless day trips impact us who live on the island. Money spent on gas doesn't seem to be an issue for people who can spend $500 a night for a place to sleep. I don't know if there is an answer.

By "needless" trips I refer to people who stay in Kona or Kohala (or anywhere) with the plan of every day being somewhere else on the island, with little time spent at the place they chose to stay. They "don't mind driving" because they do it at home. They don't think our traffic is bad because it's so much worse at home. It's so dramatic how much the highways here open up during the off months for tourism; it takes only 2/3 the time to get from Hilo to Waimea as it does during high season.

[JWFITZ]

It will take care of itself. It will simply become far too expensive to keep those lights on. There is a fair chance, a good chance in fact, that electricity rates here will be double what they are now by this time next year.