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quote:
Originally posted by allngood
...He sells his livestock, lowering the supply and further raising the price of meats...
Uh, I think you got the law of supply and demand precisely reversed, allngood. When corn (grain) prices are high, the incentive to sell the livestock brings downward pressure on the price of meat, because the market becomes flooded with every other farmer doing the same thing, selling livestock. Supply increases, and the price of meats falls...
If the farmers continue to raise their livestock to production weights, paying the extra money for higher priced feed, then the farmer can get a higher price for his livestock. i.e. if the farmer takes the risk to stay in the meat market with higher feed costs, he should be rewarded with higher priced meat. If lots of farmers do the same thing, then the market isn't saturated with meat, it's stable-to-scarce, thus raising the cost of meat to the end-user. Eater. Whatever.[:o)]
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
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"...The farmer can take his corn and feed to livestock ..."
This is rarely done any more, most beef is grass fed. Corn as well as other grains are being used more and more to make ethanol.
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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I should have worded this bettter:
"He sells his livestock, lowering supply and further raising the price of meats"
Perhaps, I should word it this way, "He sells his livestock, lowering animal stocks and further raising the price of meats".
The sell off of livestock can create short lived price downturns in meat. Keep in mine, meat products have a short shelf life. Processed products move to the end users quickly. The over supply is gone in a a few weeks. Rarely passed on to consumers.
As prices at the grocery store increase consumers buy less and the lower animal stocks are less of a factor. The price to the farmer doesn't rise because of lower consumer demand.
The key here is animal stocks. To replaced the hamburger you buy in the store will take the farmer two years+. As a business man the farmer, has to consider is the risk worth it in an uncertain and volatile market. Currently, the better decision is to sell his corn and go on holiday.
The majority of beef continues to be fatten in " feedlots" with corn.
There is a segment of grass fed beef. Even these animals are feed corn as a supplement to promote growth.
Grass doesn't have the protein of corn, so the process of fattening an animal for market takes much longer. Slower return on investment. Production of grass fed beef uses many more acres of farm land, a luxury many producers do not have.
Food for thought
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quote:
Originally posted by EightFingers
"...The farmer can take his corn and feed to livestock ..."
This is rarely done any more, most beef is grass fed. Corn as well as other grains are being used more and more to make ethanol.
Not really accurate, or even close enough. If I may, please.
While more and more corn is going to ethanol (~20% in 2007), feed for livestock is still the major market for corn and for some other grains.
Some (IMHO, not nearly enough) beef is produced on grass.
Most beef (espec Grade A Choice) and almost all milk is produced using grain, corn being the main one; [espec soft red] wheat; and barley and grain sorghum are also fed to dairy and beef cattle, hogs, and poultry.
Almost all pork and virtually all eggs in standard retail markets rely on corn and soybean meal. Fishmeal is also used as a protein supplement, espec in poultry, pig, and dairy feed.
Fish feed also has grain (farm-raised catfish is a booming business).
+++
For the Google-happy, try these:
cattle-price-cycle;
hog-price-cycle;
steer:corn ratio;
hog:corn ratio;
grass-fed beef;
forage-based dairy...
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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My information came from a relative in the ranching business, so I''ll take your word for it and leave this alone for now..
What are they feeding the cattle on the Parker Ranch? I thought it was just grass.
I agree with the grass-feed issue, cattle are designed to be foragers and grain feeding creates several issues in digestion one of which can lead to death by suffocation. Antibiotics are also required during the "fattening stage" or "feedlot stage".
Puna: Our roosters crow first
quote:
Originally posted by EightFingers
...
What are they feeding the cattle on the Parker Ranch? I thought it was just grass. ...
Parker Ranch Cows are weaned from their mothers as calves at a young age and sent to the mainland.
While big ranchers like Parker take the 10-15 percent of the herd that’s unsuitable for shipping to the mainland and set them aside as grass-fed beef for local slaughter and processing, the local grass-fed market is just an afterthought for big ranches
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It is the way... the way it is.
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Damon's got the basics on Parker Ranch (and several thousand more) calves being weaned and shippped, especially to BC, Canada.
Beef and dairy in Hawaii are in bad sorts with the price of grain beyond stratospheric levels. High grain prices tend to depress weaned calf prices, under most circumstances; and the dairy farms here have been based on a business model just like California: small amount of land, large number of cows, import grain, and depend on government to bail out when it (inevitably) doesn't work.
Forage-based dairy and beef is a done thing in New Zealand and, according to private sources, investment is being made in using that success to establish forage- based cattle production that will supply local (archipelago) beef and dairy product markets.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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Even so, you must realize that a new york steak, comparing protein content to protein, is only about 20 percent more expensive on this island than tofu.
The thing people forget about meat production is that you can graze animals on land you couldn't possibly farm. Animals and meat in general have been a good part of survival farming since the dawn of time, and important today, and it's good not to over politicize the issue.
The problem isn't meat, it's the industry. Which is, of course, a portion of the agricultural industry as a whole.
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More stuff on food prices.
Farmers have little to no input on the price they receive for their products.
In order to maintain profit margins, retailers and service companies can raise their prices when cost rise.
Farmers take market price, regardless of their cost of production. For example, corn price to farmer has been relatively level since the 60s, at least until last year. Imagine trying to make a profit on same return given the difference in cost of doing business over the last 50 years.
A local example from my banana farming days 1989 - 1999, wholesale price varied from .40 (good) - .30 (cost of production) depending on price of imports. Obviously my cost rose quite a bit over 11 years.
Farmers cause part of the problem as they tend to over produce. Government policies and consumers get the rest of the blame.
When polled most consumers everywhere will check, support local farmers. However, the real poll is at the grocery checkout, where they vote with their pocket books and buy the lower priced items, regardless of the producer.
The point here is to pass on information to why agriculture is not booming here in Hawaii or elsewhere.
It is a tough business, you do it because you love it.
Prices will rise given economic climate today, but we all should be very happy that when we go grocery shopping, food is abundant and we have choices.
Lot of places in the world, that's not the case.
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quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
Animals and meat in general have been a good part of survival farming since the dawn of time
Thanks for that, JW. Your words are true and support my own experience from infancy of relying on farming, hunting, and fishing for food.
Tofu? I love the stuff -- for what is, not for what it is not.
Unfortunately, nobody in these islands (to my knowledge) is growing
soybeans for making tofu. Although a few people are making tofu here.
So, tons and tons of tofu sold at health-food stores, at KTA, and the restaurants is imported, and a small amount is made here with imported beans -- not good enough.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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