Volcanoes

[gtill]

Alaska in specific is reopening studies of Geothermal extraction for electric production. Ditto many western states and worldwide. Willing to beat through thick bush just to drill, and transmit same for untold miles.

We have it here, ready to just expand and serve the whole Island. True private enterprise (Ormat) is capable of quickly replacing most of our power needs. But Helco can't manage transmission to Kona, around the island. Why?

[pslamont]

Hopeflly the economic situation with petroleum will be a driving force to change that.


Just another day in P A R A D I S E !!

[DanielP]

Carey,

I must respectfully disagree. The items that you mention are just an excuse. None of them are very difficult to overcome, let alone deal killers. We need some forward thinking politicians and business people who are not too lazy to break through the absurd gridlock that exists with electrical generation on BI.

Dan

[Carey]

Sorry, should have directed to the full Hawaii County energy sustainability report from the Kohala Center & the baseline energy analysis that are available at:
http://learning.kohalacenter.org/news/de...asp?id=785

[DanielP]

Thanks Carey,

I am printing the article now. 91 pages is too much to read on the computer. I hope that I don't run out of ink.

I did notice that at the time of the report that electricity was 28 cents/KWH. Half of todays cost.

P. S.

A thought before I read my new book; Does anyone believe that we are depleting the world's oil supply. That the oil may last another 50 or 100 years? Is this too far into the future that we should not be planning for it?

With the move towards electric vehicles, that electric demands will increase beyond that which was anticipated just a few years ago?

That Carbon emissions might be something that we might want to move away from?

But then again, Helco could always build a Nuke plant.

Thanks again Carey for the link. I will be reading for awhile, yes, with a somewhat biased eye.

PPS. Check out the projected fuel prices on page 38.

Dan

[dakine]

geothermal in hawaii is not a reliable resource. ie they can do it.. but one lava flow could take it all out, or take the transmission lines out, and an eq could break the wells, and the resource is only so hot, so extraction at too high a rate will kill the resource. and collapse of the well is always possible when the pressures are diminished. all of these issues were raised by puna geothermal committee when we drove them out of the volcano area in the '80s. the courts backed us up and they were gone. the problem today is that the communities in lower puna never made a concerted effort to do the same, too much in-fighting, and now have to contend with what they have. but do the research, it is a very unreliable resource.

[DanielP]

There are dozens of geothermal generation sites all over the western U.S. Many have been operating for decades. Transmission lines sending electricity for hundreds of miles. And Easments? Eminent domain. Too far out of the box for some.

[DanielP]

Thanks again Carey for that link. I have only read 25 pages or so, but I skipped around to focus on the geothermal portions.

I would sure like to hear from those in lower Puna about the plant down there.

So, my take on what I read is that the technical challenges that face geothermal are pretty much met.

The transmission issue is an economic issue which is changing with the cost of oil and the fact that the biggest demand is Kona side. However, there is a possible site on Hualalai.

The deal killer is a cultural, political and social issue.

Many native Hawaiians feel that Geothermal is sacrilegious, that we would be desecrating Pele's world. Hard to argue that one. Or perhaps one could see geothermal as one of Pele's gifts.

Also there are the NIMBY's (Not in my back yard) and the prejudiced.

dakine, I have been doing research and I find that the science says that you are overstating the reliability issue, however, I must agree with the lava flow point. Lava zone 1 is not a good location.

You one of those NIMBY's? I tend to be myself,unfortunately.

Aloha, Dan

[dakine]

dan - yes I am surely one of the nimby'ers, but at the same time, as a member of PGC back in the early '80s I did a lot of research.. and the correspondences I had with scientists in new zealand and california did lead me to believe that geothermal is a pretty big long shot when one wants to generate a lot of power. the footprint needed to drill enough wells.. and the rate that any one well goes bad makes the whole enterprise way out of scale for our community. there is also some very real dangers that thankfully we have not had to contend with.. yet. ground collapse, and well blowouts being a few. keep in mind when the state first proposed geothermal they wanted to ship the energy to oahu.. and that would have required a whole lot of wells. and then there is the fact that not every hole drilled hits a resource. when they drilled in the middle rift they put (I believe) five wells in and didn't hit one heat resource. even though they were right on the rift zone. I haven't any idea how they are doing on that account down in lower puna, but they cover that one up by using each dead hole to re-inject the crap they bring up from each working well. but all the wells do die off. all the 'test' wells that were originally next door to the current plant went dead a long time ago. so to have a sustainable resource they would have to consume more and more land. and we all know that isn't going to happen. and of course any industrial complex that the community becomes dependent upon that is in lava zone one.. is just nuts. those wells today are on the rift.. look at all the cinder cones and vent complexes in the area.. nuts!

the only geothermal resource that was identified when don thomas did the initial resource mapping of the whole state, that would have a chance of being in a 'fairly' stable area, was on maui. I wonder how the people over there would feel about it.

[DanielP]

I am bringing this post forward so as to include the link that Carey posted. Starting on page 54 is data on PGV (geothermal).