A good place to start restoring community values:

[Hotzcatz]

I'm not sure if we are going to continue to have any sort of mass migration here. There are about forty jobs listed in the Hilo newspaper today and many of them are for jobs in Kona. Folks moving here are going to have to be self employed and bring a job with them or they will go hungry. Airline tickets are now expensive again and many folks who migrate here don't want to actually be here all the time, they want to keep returning several times a year to where they originated from and where their family generally is. So, with the price of airline tickets and their family so far away, many of them already here will be relocating closer to their families. Lack of air travel, lack of employment, general expensiveness of living the kind of lifestyle they are used to will have many of the kolea (migrating birds) returning to their place of origin.

Offsetting that, of course, will be the influx of folks who can't afford to heat their house this winter on the mainland. But if they can't afford heating oil, they probably can't afford airline tickets and will end up in Florida, Texas, California and Arizona instead.

I'm not sure if hurricanes are a viable threat to this island. It seems the big mountain mass moves them away so they end up pointed at Kauai instead. This is entirely an unscientific guess but they do seem to boomarang around us and whap into Kauai. When that sort of disaster strikes, though, generally folks help each other. The ohana and huis come together to help each other. What happened in your area after the big earthquake?

[JWFITZ]

Sorry, I'm speaking of a mass migration of working class families AWAY from Hawaii. It's clear that at the moment it is mostly only the retired or relatively affluent that are moving here. Exceptions for sure, but I think that's are reasonably fair assessment.

On another note, I personally, would pay more for "pineapples" and other produce if I knew it was coming from a farm that paid living wages. People are willing to pay more for "free range" chickens, etc, in the sense that they're treated more humanely, and I would hope we value human beings as much.

[DickWilson]

I guess I'm missing something here. $12 an hour for general labor is the going rate here and in most of the surronding states. We pay an entry level Building Technician $16. an hour and the requirements to qualify for that job include job skills such as reading blueprints, basic plumbing skills, ability to troubleshoot electrical systems of 277v or below, and basic HVAC skills. Is the cost of living there so much higher than the last time we were there a year ago? If it is it's not obvious from the cost I'm seeing in the Hawaii-Tribune or the price quotes I've been getting for work we will need for our construction project.

dick wilson

[StillHope]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DickWilson

I guess I'm missing something here.

---

Yes and no.
No- you are right about market price on the general labor.

Yes-the point is that Jay is like Big Island Don Quxote.
I am not being sarcastic.I admire his courage.He is well aware that he is going to alienate some people here,lose possible clients(I think he already did),became unpopular,or get targeted by the forum troll.
He has a big heart,and he feels the pain of those we politely call "less fortunate".
He is one of those people who are going to buy more expensive produce on their modest salary just to support local farmer.
I admire him,because I am not that good and on my modest salary I'd buy the cheaper product.
The ideas are not moving the world...Most of the time..

[DickWilson]

We always try to buy local when possible, We don't want to support exploiting anyone, I just got the impression that general labor wages appeared to be inline with what I'm used to seeing here. I also realize that contractors have to make a profit to stay in business and it's not possible to provide all the benefits a larger company can offer their employee's, however we also can't afford to singlehandedly raise the prevailing wage.

dick wilson

[JWFITZ]

Thanks for the kind words, Hope. Those are big shoes to fill.

I don't mind bringing up the unpopular topics. Someone needs too.

Lest we get further evasively off topic, the "prevailing" wage of Hawaii is in no way pertinent to the conversation, at least as I see it. It may be informative to a degree, to get a place to start, but my point in the discussion is that paying people who do a job a "living wage," not the "going rate," may well be a very fine and effective means of taking care a lot of the problems that are perpetually worried about on this forum--racism, crime, resentment towards mainlanders, etc. As well, it's not necessary in any way to attempt to single-handedly alter the economy. All it requires is treating those YOU choose to employ with the level of respect they are due. We may argue about that "level" is, and opinions vary, obviously, from none to a lot. For myself, again, it doesn't seem to difficult to determine what it costs a normal person to survive one day in reasonable first world security, and to pro-rate that. Minimum wage isn't even close. Not by half.

To again re-frame the conversation in terms of rebuilding community, I'd suggest:

Not patronizing any business that doesn't pay their lowest payroll member a living wage.

When you choose to hire, make sure that the person you're hiring, and hopefully paying fairly, harbors similar values about the community that you do, to insure that the rewards you offer may have a second or third life.

Live modestly enough that you can afford to be a good member of the community.

I don't think these suggestions are all that extreme or burdensome, if re-building community is something that some of us actually do value, rather than just talk about.

It would be well to re-read some of the posts in the Mr Wolf topic, as there was a fair amount of grandstanding there, and I was certainly accused of being far too negative. Well, I guess we'll see. Still, I'm glad to see there are people out there who DO indeed share, profess, and live similar, benevolent lives. Honestly, I don't think it's all that big of a deal.

[EightFingers]

"Not patronizing any business that doesn't pay their lowest payroll member a living wage."
How does one go about getting this information?

[JWFITZ]

Ask. If they don't tell you, take your money somewhere else. It can be surprising who does and does not. If the wages are low, but they offer health care, that can mean a great deal. Of course the definition of a living wage is plastic, but if you use the one you would apply to yourself, I don't think you'll make many mistakes.

I think the notion that paying the "prevailing wage" makes economic sense is complete bunk. Most of the most successful businesses I've ever seen, and certainly most profitable, paid VERY good wages. A good example locally might be "Ken's," which obviously turns a buck or two, and has happy staff some of which has waited tables there for 2 decades. I don't know island businesses well enough to suggest too many more, but I'm sure some of you all do, and this thread would be a VERY GOOD place to bring those sorts of places to light.

Good help isn't worth double, but more, than a flunky. The 80/20 rule proven over and over again, that 20 percent of people in any production environment do 80 percent of the work. I'm certain that is the case. Part of building community is finding out those people, and fairly rewarding them for the real service they apply. They're around.

Traditionally, I will point out, that temporary or "part-time" labor usually pays MORE, rather than less, to the worker, as there's obviously no assumption of responsibility of the employer to keep people employed. That is, of course, still the same in industry, but the worker doesn't get the difference, the temp agency does. It's only been relatively recently that people would consider that part time help is worth LESS. If you think about it, it's pretty nonsensical, and I'd love to see that change as well.

[JWFITZ]

And by the way,

At some point here I'd like to hire a kid, or get one "on retainer," as it could improve some of my efficiency here or there.

No skills required at this point, but will need to learn to read a tape measure. Will need to purchase two tape measures, both Stanley FAT MAX types, and will need both a standard and metric one. If you miss cut a board, you may as well figure you're going home, as when you pay 4 bucks for a 2x4 it's worth paying attention.

Doesn't need a car, I'll pick 'em up.

Doesn't need to piss test, but needs to have none of that on the job, and yeah, I can tell.

Will start at 15, 18 if you can handle a tape measure reliably.

I'd prefer local, but don't care all that much. No long hair around power tools, period. No Daffy Duck on your arms or face, or other doodling.

If someone can hook me up with that, I'd be interested.

[Rob Tucker]

Jay, I know of some good prospects in your area. I will email you directly.

Punaweb moderator