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I guess the choice becomes better traffic flow for 5 years vs. never. The population using 130 is going to grow whether it is 2 lanes or 4. While I would certainly rather get most things in Puna rather than Hilo, that would require a lot of the stores I go to, such as Home Depot, being in Puna and I don't want a bunch of big box stores. I prefer the rural feel.
I didn't realize there was only 1 helicopter. Still it creates noise and makes areas where it flies much less peaceful. I've had 1 ticket in 10 years, so I'm not too worried.
As for the Bay Area comparison, I guess I'm thinking of certain commutes I've had there and for the most part traffic still moves more quickly than the 2 lane to 1 merge in Keaau here at rush hour.
I don't see the problem as too many people being in a hurry. As I suggested having two lanes in each direction allows those that want to drive under the speed limit their own lane without impeding traffic flow. From where I live, a round trip to Hilo can take 15-20 more minutes than it used to several years ago, and that's a lot more time on the road that really adds up if you have to commute everyday.
Roundabouts vs. lights, either is fine with me, but since the drivers here can't seem to figure out how to use that intersection as it exists, I'm not too confident they'd do better with a roundabout.
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quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
Damon,
Thrilled to hear you are on the Hwy 130 Advisory group.
A couple of key points from me:
+ NO widening -- that only creates more traffic.
+ 45MPH From South end of Pahoa Bypass (intersection near school) to North end of Keaau Bypass (Shipman Industrial) .
+ Use the County Helicopter to patrol during busiest times and cite, cite, cite the crazies speeding, passing on the shoulder, tailgating, etc.
+ Major danger to be addressed: people passing in the shoulder lanes, including the alleged '6am-8am' strip where people drive way, way fast and pass on the right side.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
It worries me when fellow people cry for more policing, I'm surprised to hear it from Puna Webbers especially. The last thing we need to do is invite more of that kind of control. It may seem 'easy' and a quick fix to some people, but in the end we're shooting ourselves in the foot. Helicopters patrolling the road to Puna??? Even helicopter, singular... That's out of control...
There will be more traffic regardless, a road doesn't do that, population does. Typically when you have a "fast lane", the people that want to go faster use it. The people who want to cruise keep right. As for people going way over the posted speed, I think the police are on the right track right now. Pull some people over out there, make the public aware that it isn't a free-for-all anymore, that you never know when they'll be there, that the risk of getting caught is very present. The people that speed and drive crazy through there are most likely people that drive the road all the time, know that police presence is rare and think they can get away with it.
Myself, I like driving and not feeling like Big Brother is lurking behind every bush to nab me for a minor infraction... I don't even want to think about having more of the idiot copters in the air...
~Melissa
Melissa Fletcher
___________________________
"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
a lot of good points being made, too many for me to list them all, just visualize me nodding. [  ]
Where I disagree is that widening the lane will bring more cars. Having big subdivisions that are finally getting built means there are cars. Right now, having the lava viewing come to Kalapana means hundreds of visitor cars that would normally have given Puna a miss. (I'm thinking speed traps could be a response to this new kind of traffic?)
This road needs to be two lanes each way, at least from Pahoa to Hwy 11, with a signal at each major subdivision, to be adequate for the population growth. People are not going to take the bus just because the road is dangerous. No, people will get killed.
As has been said, having two lanes allows the fast and slow people to get along with each other on the road. It gives people a better shot at making a right turn onto the highway. It gets rid of the dangerous merge crunch where people seem to throw their aloha to the wind.
I don't know what possesses people in those Puna merges or the highway to Puna in general. I drive around Hilo all the time and people are sooo polite and generous, waving each other in and through. Then you leave town and suddenly you've got jerks all around. I don't know why, but I've seen it enough times to know it's a real phenomenon.
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quote:
Originally posted by KathyH
As has been said, having two lanes allows the fast and slow people to get along with each other on the road.
Having 1 lane each way with designated turn lanes and bus zones would be the most efficient fix to the problem.
Having 2 lanes each way with designated turn lanes and bus zones would also fix the problem, but would cost more money.
Having 2 lanes each way without designated turn lanes and bus zones does nothing to fix the problem at all. The reality of driving on this island is that the slow drivers are going to go slow no matter which lane they are in. Further, with all of the turnoffs and merges, guessing which lane is "fast" and which lane is "slow" is nearly impossible, as either lane can be blocked by an exiting car. While 2 lanes does help you with overall flow, the major problems are exits and merges, something that designated lanes will solve more efficiently.
That said, I do think the 2 lane should be extended to Kaloli. This would alleviate the first bottleneck, and at least give the HPP drivers an alternate route.
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You all might consider that the State DOT is, as a practical matter, less interested in how to best serve the Puna District than in how to spend $60 million without thinking hard about it.
Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by mattastic78
Having 1 lane each way with designated turn lanes and bus zones would be the most efficient fix to the problem.
Having 2 lanes each way with designated turn lanes and bus zones would also fix the problem, but would cost more money.
Having 2 lanes each way without designated turn lanes and bus zones does nothing to fix the problem at all.
It seems like ideally there would be two lanes, "slower traffic keep right" with a central turn lane, at least through the subdivision areas. I don't see the need for it for the last leg of the road into Puna, traffic seems to flow just fine a little past Ainaloa. Wasn't there a bypass road planned a few years back toward the back of HPP? I've heard it mentioned, don't know much about it though...
That bottleneck just past the high school is the worst part of it that I've seen, but merging anywhere before Ainaloa wouldn't solve the problem, there needs to be two lanes.
Melissa Fletcher
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"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
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While it may not "seem like" widening the highway will increase traffic, repeated cases over and over and over again have demonstrated exactly that. Do the research.
No need for armchair engineers.
Repeated cases have demonstrated the lowest cost, safest, most readily available, longest-lasting options:
1) Keep traffic demand internal to the community.
2) Get more people in each car that is on the road (e.g., carpooling).
3) Get people out of cars, especially with more use of mass transit.
Until the above three have been done to a much, much greater degree than we have anywhere on this island, more highway lanes are futile and a waste of money.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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quote:
It worries me when fellow people cry for more policing,
The only reason to be worried is if you are one of the scofflaws.
We have people killing and maiming other people on Hwy 130! That is a crime.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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Maybe the speed limits need to be adjusted for the time of day.
As example - possibly Hwy 130 Pahoa to Keaau is 45 MPH from 6 AM to 9 AM - and 2:30 to 6 PM. But at 10:30 Am it is 55 all the way.
Is there any chart or reference that shows the time of day in addition to the location where the accidents occur?
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quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
quote:
It worries me when fellow people cry for more policing,
The only reason to be worried is if you are one of the scofflaws.
We have people killing and maiming other people on Hwy 130! That is a crime.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
That isn't the only reason to be worried, Mr. Weatherford. I'm not sure what a scofflaw is, but since I've never been called one I guess I don't have to worry...[8D]
I've done my research on the results of asking for more government intervention. Would you say that people are better off the majority of the time? I definitely would not. That action should be a last resort.
Before asking for more policing from the ground as well as in the air (!!!) perhaps we should see what effect sustaining current efforts can bring about. For instance, what are the numbers of stops after a week of these "traps" as compared to the first day? That would show the trend. If we can utilize the police force that we have already and have them letting their presence be well known on that stretch, then people will likely think twice before acting crazy on that road. Since we aren't using those resources to full capacity (or haven't been) it seems unlikely that we would use new and more expensive resources any more effectively. It seems a bit extreme as well, and a bit conflicting, the call of, "Bring in the Choppers, People are being Murdered! now let's set about a several years long process of bulking up our mass transit and getting people to carpool and bulking up Puna so people don't have to leave there as much." It also seems to me that this thinking is what has swept across America, making each town a mirror of the next with the same issues and feel...
Also, double lanes from the high school to the end of Ainaloa? You think that would increase traffic? Did the double lanes coming off the highway and ending just after the high school cause more traffic? Regardless, the traffic's there. No armchair engineering needed. Do you think a double lane in Kona would bring more traffic? I'm curious in your research if the roads you're talking about were the only way into and out of a particular area... Usually cities, towns have more than one way in. Not so in this case. It makes sense that if drivers could choose between two routes that a better designed road would end up getting more traffic...
Melissa Fletcher
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"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
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