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Dr. J.
Your reply to my first 2 points? Please.
If you look to the future population in Puna, say 200,000, do you think that the primary artery for that population would do better with roundabouts? I am doubtful.
I am an armchair engineer, Dr., and will be one if I choose. Is there a doctorate required to post an opinion here?
As far as widening creating more traffic, I suspect that that depends on the surrounding road system. If you widen a road within a grid type system, where adjacent traffic from other roads might migrate to the wider thoroughfare, then I would imagine that that is probably true.
When the road in question is a single primary artery feeding all of the traffic in and out of a peninsula, I don't think so.
From the armchair,
Dan
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Just a thought about the traffic island/traffic signal controversy. I come from England, where traffic islands have been in place for as long as I've been driving (more than 50 years) and I find them to be superior to traffic signals in most instances in promoting smooth traffic flow.
There are some instances, for example at on/off ramps to the motorways, where access to the traffic island or 'roundabout' as they are called in the UK is controlled by traffic signals at each intersecting road. This works very well in high traffic situations such as access to Heathrow Airport, etc.
Some places combine traffic signals with roundabouts and turn the signals on only when traffic backs up on the roundabout, such as a tailback from a traffic accident.
Roundabouts are becoming increasingly popular in California in newly developed areas, such as controlling traffic flow into and out of shopping precincts, etc. They are less costly overall, requiring no energy expenditure or maintenance, unlike traffic signals, and it takes a very short time period to become accustomed to their use.
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quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
Don't be an armchair engineer.
You mention this quite a bit... just wondering... are you a licensed civil engineer?
Anyway, what Yurtgirl said hits the nail on the head.
"True too that many people have schedules to keep, kids to pick up, multiple stops to make and live in the boonies..."
You all live and drive in the boonies. Period. Be happy 130 is even paved. [:p]
Seriously though, true the road could use some improvements, but I have a feeling the people at county and state are afraid of expansion because it's only going to increase traffic and encourage more growth in a part of the island it was never meant for. Seriously, this county knows what it's like to deal with a major tragedy in a populated area... do you think it wants to concentrate or encourage more development in the most probable path of the volcano?????
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Dan,
We can all pretend to be whatever we want.
My PhD, which you and others seem to take offense at (your problem, not mine) is in Agicultural Economics.
My information and understanding about the impacts of highway widening are from extensive research -- using reliable, NOT undocumented blogs, as a source.
In Australia I drove for 8 years in rural areas, small and mid-sized towns, and metropolitan areas, and got plenty of opportunity to directly experience the improvement roundabouts bring -- this benefit is especially evident for a grid-suburb/rural town/dispersed population pattern we now have and are growing into in Puna.
Plus, I have done the research on roundabouts. Case studies repeatedly and clearly show improved traffic flow (which also means reduced fuel usage and emissions) and the improved safety for drivers, passengers, pedestrians, and bicyclists. Roundabouts cost no more build and cost far less to maintain, including electricity. Also, signals are worse than useless when the electricity goes out -- the function of a roundabout does not change when the lights go out.
I like to let the facts get in the way of a good story -- you might try it some time 
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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What about we try one roundabout where HB/HS access (Kahakai) onto Hwy 130 and Old Government Road (aka Pahoa Rd aka Pahoa Village Rd) all come together instead of the signal or 2 that is slated for that intersection area?
Its a spot with some of the greatest amount of accidents. The speed is already supposed to be lower there.
It seems IMH uneducated opinion that it would be a good test case.
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[quote from Kapohocat] "What about we try one roundabout"
This is a good suggestion, imho.
Here in Alaska the road professionals recommended roundabouts to resolve some worsening traffic problems at trouble spots and met with huge resistance to the idea. I was among those who did not favor having roundabouts, mainly because I worried about how they would serve when roads tend to be icy (which is several months every year). One was put in and the number of accidents went way down even as flow improved and speeded up. Now there are several, including a double-roundabout (two roundabouts linked with each other on either side of an overpass). While it is the exact opposite of what I expected, they do work well --based on actual results-- and I am now glad the roundabouts are here even though I initially opposed them.
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
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quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
My PhD, which you and others seem to take offense at (your problem, not mine) is in Agicultural Economics.
My information and understanding about the impacts of highway widening are from extensive research -- using reliable, NOT undocumented blogs, as a source.
I didn't notice anyone taking offense to your PhD and something about the way that was written kinda rankled. I was beginning to wonder where your research stemmed from too... one person's idea of good research is another's... well, anyway... [  ]
"reliable, NOT undocumented blogs..." Would these be considered a primary source? Blogs, right? I thought you had read through actual research, numbers, specific cases with documented results. Is that what these blogs are? Just trying to understand here...
So, if roundabouts would increase traffic flow and make the roads less congested, is that to say that these would NOT increase traffic in general, but that widening the roads would? So that would mean that it comes down to the appearance of wideness; that's what brings in more traffic...? Or have I missed something? By the way Dan, exactly what I was wondering, as a main artery and not a grid system, does 130 even apply to said 'research'? Seems there may be many variables that aren't taken into account.
I can certainly see how roundabouts would be much better than a stoplight. We do still have the issue of people wanting to go under the speed limit and those wanting to go faster, tailgaters, etc., that won't be affected by roundabouts. But one thing at a time, right?
Melissa Fletcher
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"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
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It sounds like what most everyone wants is improved safety, improved flow patterns, and no increase in existing volume.
Roundabouts are an efficient way of achieving this goal.
Just widening the road does very little to improve flow at the major intersections, as you have 2 lanes to jump across now instead of 1. Not to mention, it is questionable whether widening will actually improve safety.
However neither improvement will address your other concerns of people going under the speed limit and tailgaters. In fact, there is NO improvement possible that is going to change the behavior of these drivers. I'm sorry, but this is just a fact of life that all of us have to deal with, no matter where we spend our time on the roads.
>>>Just widening the road does very little to improve flow at the major intersections, as you have 2 lanes to jump across now instead of 1.
It doesn't help with left turns, but it helps with turning right. I've experienced many times that if you're waiting to make a right turn it's easier to get out if there are two lanes my direction.
For left turns, there should be signals at crucial points, and a center lane to turn into.
Having two lanes each way means that when the light turns red the traffic waiting is spread out laterally and doesn't back up as far.
Roundabouts may be more efficient when you test flow with the assumption that all drivers know how to drive the intersection, but American drivers get confused by roundabouts as they are not the norm, and confusion is not a good thing.
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Roundabouts or Rotaries as we call them in New England are very effective for flow efficiencies, curtailing speeding and ease of exiting to various streets. Once you experience a rotary and get the feel of the flow, it is really easy to navigate, stay to the right and yield to oncoming traffic...One major highway we have has 6 streets entering the rotary, quite an adventure during rush hours! Noticed not many drivers anywhere seem to yield anymore either ... Humph. Hey Damon, add this to your list of suggestions as you are advisory DOT council/commitee ??, correct?
Lika
"To err is human, to forgive divine"
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