Science & Technology/Big Island ...love/hate?

[AlohaSteven]

Is one a Nimby (Not In My Back Yard!) Luddite or a Local Hero to oppose risky new emerging technologies as well as scientific pokings and proddings to the universe? At what point is a good socially, culturally, and environmentally conscious Punatic worthy of that honorific shooting him or herself (and the tree s/he is hugging as well) in the foot/root to oppose technological innovation and scientific experimentation?

For example, a case in point: to some folks tomorrow, Wednesday, 10SEP2008 equals Doomsday. Will it actually mean the End of the World arriving in Hawaii as the Large Hadron Collider is switched on in Switzerland? Despite a legal battle in Hawaii to prevent the Large Hadron Collider from being activated this enormous machine will be test-fired for the first time tomorrow. If we are all still here on Thursday, as I expect, then we will know the device did not torch the planet or create a black hole which turns Gaia inside out ...yet it is clearly true there is always some measure of risk attendant to new technologies. Pandora's Box-like unintended consequences tend to come hand in hand with the best of intentions and powerful new gizmos, nifty chemicals, and wondrous widgits of all manner. Recently the focus of alarm has shifted more to subtle persistent toxins and to genetically manipulated organisms yet whatever is currently laying inert on the slab in the lab outside of Geneva will doubtless surprise us all once "...Its alive!"

It was another Swiss, Dr. Victor Frankenstein, a modern Prometheus, who went monkeying around with powerful forces in Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley's extraordinarily excellent Romantic novel on the risks and consequences of technological will to power meeting up with hubris. Nonetheless, most people benefit hugely from medical technology and are glad to have it despite the trade-offs, risks, and costs. There was no lawsuit in Hawaii attempting to prevent Victor's fictional attempt to defeat disease and death, but Hawaiians did attempt to block the LHC activation.

Hawaii in general and Puna in particular seem to have a particularly zesty mix of love and hate for science and technology. I wonder what factors are involved in this love-hate relationship and how it affects local politics and economic progress (or the lack thereof) versus improving and preserving a good quality of life and the environment as well as stimulating the local economy? We see it all around us: the observatory-friendly dull yellow street lights near intersections which manage to look so much like yellow traffic signal lights in a rainstorm at night, for instance. GMO's (genetically manipulated organisms) as potential crops and introducing Strawberry Guava wasps are another couple examples. What are some others and how do folks determine for themselves what is an acceptable balance of potential benefit versus risk in weighing these issues?

Links for your possible interest:

Doomsday Fears Spark Lawsuit
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2...23924.aspx

Why the Fascination with the End of the World?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7600966.stm
(Reader's comments following this article are as interesting as the informative article itself)

Listen Live as the LHC is Switched On
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/bigbang/

More on the Hawaii lawsuit to block the LHC start-up
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/scienc...lider.html



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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Pres. John Adams, Scholar and Statesman


"There's a scientific reason to be concerned and there's a scientific reason to push for action. But there's no scientific reason to despair."

NASA climate analyst Gavin Schmidt

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[Seeb]

Reality and logic do not apply here.

[rbakker]

These people with the lawsuit to stop the Collider are making a laughing stock out of the US and Hawaii. Or is it a master plan in a new economic campaign to make Hawaii the center of the New Age world? If so, they got themselves some invaluable free publicity.

I know a couple who travelled from overseas to Hawaii so that their crystal could visit with another crystal. We badly need more such people coming here.

[Kapohocat]

quote:

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Originally posted by rbakker...
I know a couple who travelled from overseas to Hawaii so that their crystal could visit with another crystal...

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And this is what makes Puna ... Puna....[][8D][]

[AlohaSteven]

I appreciate the perspective and sincerety of people who sued to stop the LHC even though, so far at least, the start-up of the Large Hadrom Collider appears to be a glowing success and without mishap. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/bigbang/

Who knows that but for their directing attention to the issue the calculations and reasoning may have (indeed, probably) underwent a more intense level of scrutiny than would otherwise have been the case. We all would have benefited from exactly that happening a few years ago when a perfectly functional spacecraft was launched from Earth, transited successfully to Mars, and was then plowed into a mountainside because someone forgot to convert from miles to kilometers in a flight trajectory programming calculation on altitude and nobody else caught the blunder. The Mars probe performed flawlessly and exactly as it was designed and instructed, right into a mountainside.

I appreciate the folks who brought their crystal to Hawaii so that it could commune with the vibrations of a local Hawaiian crystal, too, as certainly the dollars they spend here are just as green as anyone else's and they are probably not doing any harm. Diverse perspectives add to the mix and enhance results, imho, although it can be genuinely frustrating attempting to arrive at consensus on important decisions with folks who have a hugely different paradigm or worldview. That last part is why I'd like to understand peoples' thinking better. At some levels I think both the scientist from the Western intellectual tradition, the folks with crystals, or someone with a TKE-based or spiritually-based interpretation of consensual reality can all "be right" at the same time. When one tries to block the other though, there can be difficulties. All living together in the same community on the same island, better understanding across those subcultures seems constructive.



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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Pres. John Adams, Scholar and Statesman


"There's a scientific reason to be concerned and there's a scientific reason to push for action. But there's no scientific reason to despair."

NASA climate analyst Gavin Schmidt

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[Greg]

Science, from the prospective of profit driven companies, is not pure science. The need to know is tainted by the need to please stockholders.

A good example is found among the pharmicutical companies. They do a great deal of valuable research, but so far have not had to resort to celebrity telethons to find a cure for erectile disfuntion.[]

[AlohaSteven]

"...pharmicutical companies...do a great deal of valuable research, but so far have not had to resort to celebrity telethons to find a cure for erectile disfuntion"

True enough! Yet we can strive to follow Augusto and Michalea Odone's inspiring example with educating and involving ourselves to figure out local solutions where corporate entities are uninterested in the potential profit spread. The Danish take this sort of proactive approach to local issues of concern, studying the issues in workgroups (like Friends of Puna's Future is proposing) and coming up with viable local solutions which fit within the cultural context, economics, and environmental expectations of residents who have lived there for generations and whose children will be there after them.

The reference to the Odones comes from the true story of a couple parents struggle to improve the quality and longevity of life for their boy with a rare disease, as portrayed in the excellent film "Lorenzo's Oil." The Odones were successful and their efforts have made a huge difference for the better with their own son (who lived to 30 years old instead of dying at 8 as expected) but for the children of many other families as well. I highly recommend the film; it is deeply moving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo's_Oil



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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Pres. John Adams, Scholar and Statesman


"There's a scientific reason to be concerned and there's a scientific reason to push for action. But there's no scientific reason to despair."

NASA climate analyst Gavin Schmidt

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[rbakker]

When did they start the Hawaii lawsuit and when did work start on the LHC? Years apart, I would bet. I think the lawsuit was less thought-provoking that laugh-provoking in Switzerland.

Crystals are not alive; they can't communicate. This was not a case of two thought systems "being right" at the same time, one was most definitely wrong.

Science is not a belief system. It is testable truth. As someone said, if you think you can make your own reality then try it out on gravity from a tall ladder.

But, that being said, New Agers, welcome to Hawaii, your new spiritual home!

[LeeE]

Great Bush/Cheney gang quote about, "making your own reality".

New Agers make better neighbors than the Bush Gang any day, so welcome New Agers!