Fool for Fuel

[VALINSWAY]

I have been doing some thinking about the gas prices and how dependant we are to the mainland.
In my native country of Brazil we have used pure ethanol since 1970 yes 100% in our cars, not just 10%, at a current cost of $1.00 a gallon. Sure its good for the enviroment but the green most people are concerned about is in their wallets not in their forests.
So we have a perfect climate to grow sugarcane to produce ethanol, but what of the waste husks? No waste as sugarcane husks burn very hot and long just like coal. So we use the leftovers to run our electric plants to reduce our energy costs, again more green in your wallet and enviroment.
So energy independance is impossible right? WRONG, Brazil is 100% independent, so if the middle east blew up tomorrow the USA economy crashes, energy goes costs go crazy, people riot. What will happen to Brazil? Nothing.
Just ideas I have had we cannot depend solely on tourism. Hawaii needs self relience. Oh yes check this out for a little more info, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

[rbakker]

Ola!

http://www.investors.com/editorial/edito...2180355425&secid=1501&status=article

Brazil's independence has more to do with increased oil exploration than ethanol production, according to that article.
Still, I think sugar cane as fuel is a great idea. If it's economically feasible, it will happen.

[Guest]

Brazil is in a very different situation than most other places in the world. Brazil's equatorial position, it's abundant rain and it's very few miles of highway and the cars per acre of arable land, cars percapita make it an ideal place to use pure ethanol. Sugar cane, if grown under those perfect conditions, make it ideal for biofuel production.

You have to remember that except for nuclear, tidal and geothermal all other fuels come from the sun.: Oil and coal are sunshine from a million years ago Ethanol, Biodiesel, Hydro, and stover are sunshine from recent time.

There must be a reason why ancient Egyptians worshiped Ra, for without his influence our globe would be but a frozen ball.

The Sun has been on an upswing as of late, which explains why the ice caps on Mars have been melting. But we will go extinct as a species from this world and the Earth will still have millions of years of life that will evolve through cycles of ice ages and warm periods. It is just the rhythm of the universe, I guess.

[JWFITZ]

every square inch of agricultural land that goes to feeding machines is land NOT used for feeding ourselves. Once we get our food self-sufficiency in place, and we have a long long way to go, then looking a biofuel may be a sensible idea. Until then, it's starving kids to keep driving.

[DrJ]

The other problem with ethanol is that it requires more energy to produce than it puts out. Meaning it actually isn't green since the process is so inefficient.

[Guest]

Alcohol's fer drankin' period!

But one could kill two birds with one stone with a duel use crop like moringa.
You can feed yourself, your livestock and make ben oil which will run straight in a diesel engine.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by VALINSWAY

So energy independance is impossible right? WRONG, Brazil is 100% independent, so if the middle east blew up tomorrow the USA economy crashes, energy goes costs go crazy, people riot. What will happen to Brazil? Nothing.

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It's apples to oranges.
Brazil made a decision to embrace alternative fuels; the US is still debating if a study should be conducted to decide how to structure a blue ribbon panel to determine if a commission needs to be formed to define what fuel is.
Brazil made a decision to use alcohol; the US jumps on whatever bandwagon is rolling down the street at the moment.
Brazil mandated that car manufactures phase in gasohol vehicles; the US only mandate mpg but exempts the worst offenders from the requirement.
Brazil mandated that gasohol be available at gas station, the US refuses to mandate anything that isn’t approved by oil companies.
Brazil launched a massive campaign to educate people on alcohol; the US can't even educate the people on spelling alcohol.
Brazil provided straight honest facts to it's people, US residents believe just about any propaganda they are told if its on glossy enough paper.
Brazil limits it's oil exploration and imports based on their own long-term need not on making money right this second, the US will drill in Arlington Cemetery if it makes money for someone.

Basically, Brazil saw a problem, examined solutions, implemented the solutions and they are where they are today. As for the US, well lets face it, if it wasn’t for gunpowder, Hawaii would be it’s own sovereign nation and Mexico City would be our capital.

[JWFITZ]

That is a fact.

One of my ex girlfriends was on Lula's panel on that whole project. I'm pretty familiar with how it all went down.

The biggest problem with the US is we're so far from being a meritocracy that it's ridiculous. If anything, the best and brightest are sent to work at sawmills while, ahem, you can see the kind of scholars that Yale puts out. ..

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by JWFITZ

every square inch of agricultural land that goes to feeding machines is land NOT used for feeding ourselves.

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Although that is true, ethanol is not the real culprit of rising food cost.

Each year, over 60,000 acres of cropland is sold for development. In Iowa one 150 acre plot was sold for a golf course. That plot produced around 23,000 bushels of corn the previous years. In Kansas, upwards of 37,500 acres of farm land that produced corn was replaced by tract homes in 2006. Missouri had a 200 acre farm lot that was paved over to make way for a discount retailer. And Arizona lost over 1,900 acres of corn and cotton farms to computer chipmakers. This repeats itself everyday.

Look at Hawaii, how many acres of "agricultural" land is producing squat? How many acres are people's private homes with absolutely no intention of producing anything but a real estate tax break for the owners?

If you ask me, we are no longer a country of produces, we are a country of consumers. Let’s face it, if food rose $50 a month and cable TV rose $50 a month, guess which one many people would cut back on. Check out one of those super centers when a person will complain over a ten cents rise in carrots, yet will swap out their 2 month old cell phone for the newest and greatest without blinking an eye.

Here’s an interesting project. Look at the total acreage of agricultural land and total number of producing agricultural land on the Big Island in 1985. Compare it to the total numbers today. What jumped out at you right away?

[DanielP]

I wonder how many acres of land are left fallow because the Federal Government pays the "farmers" not to grow a particular crop.