Ms. Naeole and Route 130

[Kahunascott]

Rob, you miss Janet’s point. She starts a thread on a specific topic and we highjack it. Janet isn't looking for "A Real Answer" just a community discussion on what others think about the timing. Why would she go to Emily?

"Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin

[Kahunascott]

quote:

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Originally posted by Damon

The contraflows on Oahu are done with simple traffic cones... With much more volume and intersections then H-130.

The zipper lane on the highway is a concrete barrier but H-130 would only need Traffic cones the way Nimitz, Kapiolani and Kalanianole are Contraflowed during rush hours on Oahu.

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First of all it would be nearly impossible to maintain the cones. Wind, rain and cars knocking them down. Take it from someone who does it on small job sites never mind a few miles. Once the cones are knocked down the control is gone and the State becomes liable. You would need someone out there the whole time driving up and down the highway dodging traffic and correcting the situations. That’s why it needs to be permanent control. Oh, you left out the cost of widening where necessary and the striping. Take it from this guy who builds roads for a living.


"Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin

[Rob Tucker]

Aloha to Janet and Scott,

I am way past trying to figure out what Emily does, why she does it much less when she does it.

The one thing you can count on with Emily is you can't count on Emily.

(yep, I know, I know.)

[janet]

Thanks, Scott. Imagine, my own brother - the original transgressor - is the one who understood my protest.

As long as we've agreed to change the subject: Over the years, I've driven in contra-flow lanes separated by traffic cones in the New York and Boston metropolitan areas and seen more than one head-on collision. Unless you have a solid line of traffic cones, without an inch of space between the bases, some idiot is going to drift across to where s/he doesn't belong. Some idiots even slalom back and forth for the fun of it (nearly crashed into one of these, once)! Placing that many cones is time consuming and expensive, and causes traffic backups while the truck and crew meander along. In addition, on Route 130, gaps would have to be created for left turns - without designated left-turn lanes, meaning more opportunities for trouble.

The ONLY safe way is a moveable barrier, and that, too, is labor intensive and expensive. It runs into the same problem with left turns.

Scott's suggestion to open the southbound shoulder for the evening rush hour makes much more sense, is cheaper and safer. Thinking ahead to how the State DOT is going to manage the widening process, I suspect that it is planning on using that shoulder to handle traffic during various stages of the construction. Why not start now?

[Guest]

The contraflows on Oahu, the cones are placed about 5 yards apart from each other with spaces where there are intersections.

There is a crew that works during the rush hour picking up any cones that may have fallen over. Once the initial cones have been laid down during non-peak hours...it doesn't take that much time for the cone people to drive on the other side of the highway picking up the occasional cone that falls down... Which is what is done on oahu.

I have seen the cones during some of the heaviest rains on oahu and with Weighted Cones the problem of them moving during winds and rain was resolved.

I'm not saying that this should be a long term solution... just a short term solution until the H-130 Widening project has been completed.

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[janet]

Damon -

Two questions about those roads on Oahu that use cones for the contra-flow lanes (I' not being sarcastic!):

1. Are they orignally wider than one lane in each direction? Does non-rush-hour traffic get stuck behind the slow-moving truck that's placing/removing the cones?

2. How do they handle left turns without designated left-turn lanes? Does traffic come to a stop when cars need to wait to turn?

[Guest]

1. H-130 is approximately the same size as Kapiolani blvd in width, although the striping is a bit different.

However, striping goes out the window once the cones are laid down.

Left turns are not allowed from the contraflow lane during rush hour... however at intersections they typically modify the cones so that there is an extra left turn lane there for the contraflow traffic.

2. Cars DO NOT come to a full on stop when they get behind the cone truck... They simply pass on the right side of the truck... pass the truck and the proceed on with traffic.



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[Guest]

Article 1:
Contraflow Improving West Oahu Traffic

Article 2: Life in the Contraflow Lane...

Check out this picture of the vehicle that they use (and travel at about 15 mph while laying cones)

"It started in 1952 along Kapiolani Boulevard from Piikoi to McCully streets as a way to ease traffic congestion. City traffic officials say it continues today, despite the advent of freeways and zipper lanes, because it's economical and dependable.

The Facilities Maintenance Department, which took over coning operations this year, estimates it costs about $192,660 annually to maintain three crews. There's a morning and afternoon crew for the Kapiolani route, a morning crew only for Kalanianaole Highway. A portion of that money comes from the state Department of Transportation, which contracts the city to do the Kalanianaole route.

More here

And Another picture of a "crew" here

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[janet]

Thank you for your prompt reply. I needed the information to make a comparison with the conditions on Route 130.

Since Rte. 130 only has one lane to give to the contra-flow and traffic going the reverse way will be using the shoulder, I don't see that there is room for left-turn lanes. Disallowing left turns during the evening rush hour would mean that HPP residents (the largest portion of the traffic) would have to drive to the end of the contra-flow lane (Paradise Drive? Makuu Drive? Makuu Market? Pahoa?) to be able to turn around and come back to enter the sub-division. Don't see that sitting very well.

At present, except for the morning rush hour going into Hilo and the "right-turn lane" into the Keaau transfer station, it is illegal to drive on the shoulder. Guess that would be easy to change to allow traffic to go around the cone-planting truck.

Another question this raises is the use of the shoulder heading toward Pahoa, which has several portions that cannot be driven on right now. They would have to be repaired/improved to allow for its use as the "reverse-direction lane" when the morning traffic is contra-flowed. If that is done, why not just use the "repaired" shoulder as a second lane, as is done in the morning, without the need for "contra-flow"?

[Tiffany Edwards]

Dear Janet et al:

The fact that you are questioning the councilwoman's motives/timing for addressing our serious traffic problem would be hilarious if the problem weren't so serious.
Maam, this is one reason why I just want to focus on raising my baby... people can be truly disappointing... you can work on something, research something, write letters to the Department of Transportation, have them not respond, resort to a resolution to try and send a message, introduce the resolution, and then the public questions your motives/timing...
Unbelievable.
Well, believable.
I wish people weren't so back-biting. I wish they would act according to their highest common denominator, rather than their lowest. It would make me feel a lot more hopeful about the world my daughter is to be growing up in...
I'm so excited to be spending full time with my baby and not wasting my time drafting up legislation for Auntie, simply for people to poo-poo for one reason or another, but largely because it comes from Auntie.
It takes a village, so let other village people try to solve the problems and get raked over the coals for their ideas.
Peace Out. Enjoy your lives. Depending on your beliefs, this could be it... So, give it all you got. And don't put up with too much B.S. There sure seems to be a lot of it around...[|)] xxoo