City of Paradise Park?

[leilaniguy]

West Hawaii Today stated in an article today, Jan. 15, that Faye Hanohano has drafted legislation to make the subdivision of Hawaiian Paradise Park a township, providing funding for police and fire services.

[Kelena]

Yeah!!!! We need to support this legislation! As a side note, I really wish they would give HPP a legitimate, Hawaiian name. I think the name change was fairly recent.

[Jon]

So does Pahoa get police funding?

From what I can tell a township in Hawaii means an area has a name, nothing more.


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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.

[StillHope]

Very interesting.Are they planning to do it with some other subdivisions?
Is there a specific reason HPP was chosen? (The largest population?)

[Bob Orts]

Think about HPP. Think about the feeling over additional expenses now. What do you really think will happen if people are told they can have this independent municipality but their property taxes will at least quadruple to pay for the service?

You'll be lucky if when the numbers are presented 10% of the property owners vote for this. On the mainland, incorporation comes with a hefty price tag. The majority of incorporations are not at the request of the people, but rather by a requirement of law that it occurs at a certain level.

Good luck. [xx(]

[Kelena]

Good point, Bob. If it were a matter of quadrupling taxes, that have almost everyone voting no. However, there is also a price to be paid for not having police, fire, mail and other services. Lately I have been wondering if that price is too high.

HPP has land that it may be able donate for the placement of fire and police substations (there is an area on 5th that was set up for a townsite of sorts) so that may reduce costs.

In the long run, HPP will become a townsite (Pele willing) because people do continue to build there, albeit at a much reduced pace. The more people are there, the greater the distribution of any additional burdens.

[amf217]

Don't think you would see it quadrupling taxes but an large increase YES! This should decrease your taxes to the county because of a decrease in service from them. Start up cost would be significant. But you get what you pay for!

[james weatherford]

Since there aren't any other "townships" in the whole state with their own fire and police, this seems like a bit of an odd piece of legislation. It has always been my understanding that there is no provision in the State Constitution for such.



James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[macuu222]

The state/county does not want to start investing in the infrastructure of HPP. That would be a monumental task once started and costs would be prohibited...especially at this time when everyone is cutting costs because of the economy.

Maybe their hoping to get some of $700 billion Obama has planned for states infrastructure and creating jobs?

[Bob Orts]

James, the state constitution does not allow the formation of an independent municipality based on the will of the people. So there's no way for the people to secede into their own municipality. The constitution does grant the county the ability to authorize independent municipalities under their jurisdiction. But, there's nothing within the state laws that provide for the creation of any independent municipality and each would have to be voted on specifically by the Sate legislature, along with the rules and regulations for the County to follow in creating one. Next the County would have to decide a whole bunch of stuff regarding the creation of an independent town. Now, I'm sure you have a good grasp of how the State and County government works, so would 2049 sound about right for it to become reality?

amf217, the County may have to re-appropriate some tax money to the municipality based on diminished services, but I doubt it would amount to anything. Maybe 20% of the property taxes collected by the county would be rebated to the municipality. So, what do you think it would cost to keep just 1 sworn officer all the time on patrol for the year? What about fire protection? Let's say the total cost of basic services is four million a year. The county rebates 1 million. That leaves 4 million to be shouldered by the property owners. That alone will be close to $500 additional taxes on top of what you’re already paying. But that does not include the cost of the municipal government beyond police and fire. So $1,000 - $2,000 extra property taxes are not unreal. Remember, the downside is that most independent mainland municipalities don't get authorized until property numbers surpass 20,000 parcels and 25,000 of age population. Where does HPP fit into that picture?

Glen, part of what needs to be looked at is what exactly will the expectation be for that service. If HPP has maybe 1 or 2 officers at any given time patrolling, taking reports, or on some form of enforcement, will the people be satisfied with those same numbers or will the expect a much higher level? Right now I'm not sure if anyone really knows exactly how many officers are present in HPP because of its size, so what will it take to satisfy the people? And we have the question of fire service and all the other municipal services. I guess I am questioning the purpose behind this. Is it really self rule, bringing back the services to the people? Or, is it as Macuu suggest, a shift of responsibility? What about this being just another creation of more political opportunities without real benefit to the people?