Helicopters circling in HPP

[Guest]

Grandma Nan already did that for you here.

Coincidentally, Emily Naeole's office was looking into some of the complaints recently.

Damon Tucker's Weblog

[dirk1609]

I have seen Nan on Youtube many times. : ) Seeing her upset, upsets me even more.

I want to get some good footage of the copters flying around and over my house

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by punafish

Looking at it from purely a legalistic standpoint, PaulW may be correct.

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It's a murky issue. But to give the most basic generic understanding, it's a layered approach.
1. You own the land and .00000001" above the surface.
2. But if you have a legal structure let’s say 20' tall at its highest point, you own up 20'.
3. But if by law (zoning codes are law) you have the right to build up to 30', you now own 30'.
4. But if you have a legal manmade item like an antenna tower that is 40' tall, you now own 40' off the ground.
5. And if you have any natural vegetation (a big hunking tree) that's 50' off the ground, you now own 50' in height.
Anything above the tallest feature is Uncle Sam’s. This is the basic generic interpretation and other things can raise or lower the interpretation.

Unfortunately, it’s a very murky area and usually it’s the courts that have to make rulings base on case law, specific circumstance, and the offending actions as to where your property starts and ends over your property.

[riceflower]

Tour helicopters operate in a gray area as far as the law is concerned. However, cases on the East coast have been settled to the plaintiffs satisfaction, and the pilots personally had to pay the people for destroying their ability to peacefully enjoy their property. We have been here for over twenty years, built in the country far from any airport, yet are subjected to tour helicopters going over every five minutes all day, on a sunny day, for the past couple years. The pilots are not even obeying their orders to fly along the highways,to avoid disturbing residents. They believe they are an elite class, and do not have to follow the rules and regulations already in place. I am hoping the ACLU will become involved, and we can have a class action suit on behalf of subdivision residents, who are otherwise too poor to launch a case themselves.

[Obie]

Air tours have a set of rules that can be found at the following link.

http://tinyurl.com/cojn4k

If you see a helicopter flying too low you can contact the FAA here.

http://tinyurl.com/cs5pq6

They would like still pictures that prove the aircraft was too low and the registration number.This is the number on the side of the helicopter
that begins with N.If you can't read the N number it is not close enough or low enough to report.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by riceflower

The pilots are not even obeying their orders to fly along the highways,to avoid disturbing residents. They believe they are an elite class, and do not have to follow the rules and regulations already in place. I am hoping the ACLU will become involved, and we can have a class action suit on behalf of subdivision residents, who are otherwise too poor to launch a case themselves.

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That was discussed in length awhile back. The restrictions you are talking about were rescinded on Hawaii after the 2 year trial phase. It remains over the national parks and certain designated state historical sites. Be it apathy on the part of the residents, lack of understanding of the importance, or a failure of local politicians to get the word out, public comments was limited to a couple of people saying it was noisy. So based on the information the FAA received, the overwhelming majority of the comments was to remove flight restrictions over Puna.

The info I and I think you were talking about was the original flight restrictions that had specific routes to be followed and certain height restrictions along that route. The purpose was to keep air tour operators from areas by requiring them to fly designated routes. It was rescinded because it just didn't work and opposition was great. However since the FAA was finalizing the previous post linked procedures, the FAA decided to let things be as it was because the final plan was due out in 2008. The new plan did away with routes such as following the highways but does have identified areas that has minimum flight levels.

The ACLU isn’t the organization it’s the Sierra Club. They did make an attempt but erred in citing safety and that was shot down by independent flight experts. They hopefully will resurrect the fight and this time maybe use the right arguments based on the successes of others.

[JWFITZ]

Launch a mylar balloon on 2000 feet of nylon monofiliment. Or get into model rocketry, it's much more fun.

[gtill]

If everyone launched an 18" baloon to 500'(would be legal if latex baloon with string), it would be an indication og his altitude for photo proof. That was once proposed to see if tour helicopters were staying on their prescribed corridors entering the park. Previously, much effort has gone into this subject, but until a unanamus voice is heard, nothing will come of it.

One thing for sure, any threat even implied will bring devastation for us all. In the early 70's a 2 engine USGS was doing a grid flight over what we now know as Puuo, right over lower Fern Forest. Some lolo put a few .22 rounds in his tail and wings, just missed a gas tank.

For the next week we lived with constant treetop choppers and open houses searches on all non permitted structures, everyone else got a stern visit. Don't even talk about it.

[JWFITZ]

Sorry, my point was that the FAA is required to clear airspace for scheduled balloon and model rocket launches.

[MarkP]

"They believe they are an elite class, and do not have to follow the rules and regulations already in place."

As a pilot, I must comment. This is a pathetically inaccurate and biased characterization of a very diverse segment of the population. I am sure there are individuals who fit this description but fortunately I have not met them yet.

I have felt mildly resentful towards helicopters that passed low overhead. It can be noisy when you are on the ground. I have felt much greater resentment towards ground based sources of noise. We as a culture tolerate the most outrageous negative consequences of the operation of automobiles from noise to air pollution to gruesome death and dismemberment. We treat driving as some divine right, but much of society has an equally irrational hostility towards flying because most people don't fly themselves.

The helicopter pilots are just average Joes trying to make a living like the rest of us. They do not take satisfaction in harassing people on the ground and would not survive long in the business if they did. The overwhelming sentiment among general aviation pilots is that their rights are being whittled away day by day by countless restrictions. I'm not saying it's the case here but it is amazing how many people build right under the approach or departure path to an airport and then complain about the noise. When I learned to fly 30 years ago a farmer a couple of miles from the airfield tried to claim that we were strafing his farm, flying so low that we were passing between the barn and the silo. We were flying gliders so this was quite impossible, which the FAA of course recognized, but the farmer actually believed what he was saying. Forgive me for not jumping on the "sky is falling" bandwagon.

Again, I am not claiming that the helicopters are totally benign, but as long as so many people feel free to comment, let it be known that some of what I have read in this and other related forums sounds quite close to intentionally creating a hazard to navigation and what I feel for any such scheme goes beyond far beyond disdain.