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Running Electricity Over Long Distance
#51
The Yogi,

Now that I have Helco hooked up, I can see that my enrgy use for my home plus Ohana is about 350 KWH/ month, costing near $150/ month. ballpark, what would it cost to install a grid-tie system to generate this amount?

I have alot of south and southwest facing roof.

Any tax credits, financing, etc?


Aloha, Dan
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#52
quote:
Originally posted by TheYogi

quote:
Originally posted by chrism
computer w/ monitor
-wattage:300
-hours/day:18
-days/week: 6
-watt hours: 4628.571
This seems off. Do you really use the computer 18 hours a day? Do you really turn it off completely for one day? Off grid folks should look VERY hard at switching to laptops. They draw significantly less wattage.

quote:
Originally posted by chrism
internet router
-wattage: 1
-hours/day: 24
-days/week: 7
-watt hours: 24
Does your router really draw only one watt? That seems very low.

quote:
Originally posted by chrism
(10) cfl bulbs
-wattage: 220
-hours/day: 7
-days/week: 7
-watt hours: 1540

Can you switch to non-CFLs?

quote:
Originally posted by chrism
TV/Cable box/DVD Player
-wattage: 340
-hours/day: 3
-days/week: 7
-watt hours: 1020
All of these also draw phantom loads you need to account for.

quote:
Originally posted by chrism
refrigerator (compressor engaged)
-wattage: 300
-hours/day: 1
-days/week: 7
-watt hours: 300

refrigerator (normal use)
-wattage: 9
-hours/day: 23
-days/week: 7
-watt hours: 207

This seems WAY to low for a fridge. What year was it manufactured?

quote:
Originally posted by chrism
washing machine
-wattage: 100
-hours/day: 1
-days/week: 7
-watt hours: 100


quote:
Originally posted by chrism
Total watt hours used in 7 days: 7819.571 [Sad]

While your load list has a significant amount of refining that needs to be done, sometime this week when I get time, I'll show you what we do with this load list. One question I have for you is do you by chance know what nominal voltage you're going to use for your system? Old systems were usually 12, newer systems 24, and newer still (and what my PV teacher always recommends to people) is 48 volts.

You asked about amps. By having your watt hours, we can compute how many amp hours you'll need. That'll be part of the calculations I do later this week (unless someone beats me to it).


Big Thanks Yogi!!
Being a computer guy, my bread and butter is my PC. That said, your right about the Laptop approach. I have to admit. I'm also a computer game fanatic. Or should I say, "I was" until now. [8D] The pc I'm running is a liquid cooled monster of a machine that I built. But gaming is the farthest thing from my mind right about now, so a laptop to build websites will do just fine.

I just bought the fridge 'used' from craigslist last weekend. It's stainless 19cu foot Whirlpool and looks like its about 4 years old. I Have a little tool called an EZ-meter where I plug the meter into the outlet and the device plugs into the meter. Then I press 'watts' and it gives me a reading. I make sure I give it plenty of time to give a consistent number but I certainly know how quirky these gadgets can be. However, the good news about all of this is that >all< my appliances will be brand new anyway, so I guess I just need to know who manufactures the most "solar friendly" stuff, and where I can find them??

Thanks Laughing-Girl,
Your right about the microwave and the fans. I'm hoping I can charge my cell phone from the cigarette lighter in my car. But finding about the catchment pump needs is a must!!

DanielP,
I hear yah loud and clear. (I wouldn't have to build so far away but their is a nuisance 2 lots down that would drive me nuts if I built up front. Any anonymous private emails from anyone on how to handle it would be a god-send). I guess it all comes down to the cost to install the 6 or 7 poles since the ground solution costs more. I was just thinking,,, If I lived 30 more years after paying for the poles I would have paid HELCO $54,000 dollars if my bill stayed at $150.00 a month. I guess its worth considering HELCO, but I just can't shake the priceless Idea of being self sufficient.

More at 11 [Wink]
Chris
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#53
Chris,

If I had that big of a problem so close, and hadn't built yet, I'd be shopping for a new location.

Dan
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#54
quote:
Originally posted by David M

QUOTE: "Can these be right?
That's like, 30kw a month? "


Not incorrect, just misinterpreted. Wink

The problem is that the 7818 Watt-hour number is a daily amount, just averaged over a one-week period. The key is:

5. Watt hours - column 1 x column 2 x (column 3 divided by 7) = watt hours

The "divided by seven" bit gives us average watt-hours per day.

The total for a month would be 235 kWhr. Truth be known, 7.8 kWhr per day is very, very good! Wikianswers suggests that the average US household consumes 29.2 kWhr per day.

(http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_av...on_in_2008)


ArtM
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#55
quote:
Originally posted by DanielP

Chris,

If I had that big of a problem so close, and hadn't built yet, I'd be shopping for a new location.

Dan


Believe me, its in the back of my mind all the time.
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#56
quote:
Originally posted by ArtM

quote:
Originally posted by David M

QUOTE: "Can these be right?
That's like, 30kw a month? "


Not incorrect, just misinterpreted. Wink

The problem is that the 7818 Watt-hour number is a daily amount, just averaged over a one-week period. The key is:

5. Watt hours - column 1 x column 2 x (column 3 divided by 7) = watt hours

The "divided by seven" bit gives us average watt-hours per day.

The total for a month would be 235 kWhr. Truth be known, 7.8 kWhr per day is very, very good! Wikianswers suggests that the average US household consumes 29.2 kWhr per day.

(http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_av...on_in_2008)


ArtM


That's great news!!!!!
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#57
Chris,

LISTEN TO THE BACK OF YOUR MIND

Dan
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#58
heco.com - search solar rebates

There are also a lot of rebates for buying new, energy star appliances.

Go with a gas (propane) dryer. Cheap to run and dries fast, vs electric.

Check with local electric contractors to run the poles vs HECO. Will be much cheaper.

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#59
Ok, let's take the 7819.5 watt hours and round it up to 7820. Let's say you go with a 48 volt nominal system rather than 24.

7820 / 48 = 162.9 amp hours per day

I'm going to multiply that by 1.2 to account for batter losses, wiring losses, and add a safety factor. These numbers can be calculated much more intricately, but I'm not going to do that and 1.2 is a safe number.

162.9 x 1.2 = 195.5 amp hours

Here is Hilo, Hawaii the worst insolation (daily sun hours) if you're using the wrong inclination, etc according to nrel.gov (http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsr...state.html) is 2.9 hours per day. We'll use that number to build in additional safety.

We divide 195.5 by 2.9 which equals 67.4 which is your total PV array current in amps.

Now we'd have to choose a solar panel. As an example, I'll use a Sharp NE-165U1 which is 165 watts and is rated at 4.77 amps.

That means we take our 67.4 amp PV array from above and divide it by 4.77 which equals 14.1 or 14 such solar panels in parallel. We aren't done. We take our system voltage of 48 and divide it by the module voltage which is 12. That means we need 4 modules in series. Multiply that by our 14 panels and we find out that we need 56 total panels. Not cheap.

Let's look at battery sizing. We determined our daily amp hours was 195.5. Standard reserve time (how many days of juice your battery bank has) is 3. You can go higher or lower but we'll use 3. So 195.5 x 3 = 586. However, we NEVER want to go below 50% capacity on our batteries or we'll kill them. So we divide the 586 by .5 and get 1173 amp hours. We then choose a battery type. I'll choose a golf cart battery with 225 amp hours of capacity. 1173 divided by 225 = 5.2 which we round up to 6 batteries needed in parallel. Since our nominal voltage is 48 and the battery we chose is 6, then we put 8 batteries in series. We multiply that by our 6 batteries in series and come to the shocking realization that we need 48 golf cart batteries. That means we'd likely go up to L16's which are more expensive but live longer IF you take good care of them.

THIS is why if you're going to be off grid, cutting down on your energy consumption is first and foremost. You need to ditch the guzzlers and get that 7820 watt hour number WAY DOWN.

How much is this going to cost you? I did a QUICK search and a 12kw (you're almost 8kw) system on ebay WITHOUT BATTERIES and a ton of other needed equipment is selling for $41,000: http://cgi.ebay.com/solar-panel-off-grid...RCH:US:101 and that includes 72 solar panels.

If you want to be off grid and not completely break the bank, you have to change your lifestyle.

Disclaimer: My numbers could be wrong. Always work with a licensed professional. Blah blah blah.
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#60
quote:
Originally posted by DanielP

The Yogi,

Now that I have Helco hooked up, I can see that my enrgy use for my home plus Ohana is about 350 KWH/ month, costing near $150/ month. ballpark, what would it cost to install a grid-tie system to generate this amount?

I have alot of south and southwest facing roof.

Any tax credits, financing, etc?

Hi Dan,

Off grid and grid tie systems are different beasts. I am not educated in grid tie systems nor am I familiar with prices for equipment and installation in Hawaii as I just moved here.

The feds are offering a 30% rebate on solar which is awesome. The state of Hawaii also offers I believe a tax credit. I'm not familiar with any local financing but I just moved here.

I PERSONALLY, if I had the cash available, would do a grid tie in a heartbeat here in Hawaii since electricity is so expensive AND I want to remove myself from, "the system" as much as possible. And of course it benefits the environment.
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