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"I agree with Greta that I am very tired of hearing "you reap what you sow" as a mantra. I'm sorry lotus, but it's become another way to simplify what happens in a complex world." -KathyH
I don't use it as a mantra, nor do I believe that there are no exceptions. Crime, racism, class-ism, and all kinds of other things can happen anywhere. I do believe that as a general rule, if you have good intentions when dealing with people, it is usually returned. AND there are going to be times when you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. My opinion is just that, mine. And I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
"prejudice does exist everywhere, and pointing out other examples in other places does not validate it in Hawaii." -Greta
Precisely! And I don't condone prejudice in any form or in any place. The point that I was trying to make is that it exists everywhere, Hawaii is no exception. The biggest difference is that instead of it being aimed at another group of people, it's aimed at my race, which can be a bitter awakening for someone who isn't used to being in the perceived majority. For instance, I married into a black family. My husband grew up as a member of the only black family in his neighborhood for years. In CT, whenever he was exposed to racism, he was so used to it, he just kinda let it go. Here, he doesn't notice it at all. His take on the local scene here is that everyone notices that he's darker, but no one seems to care. On the flip side, I, having grown up in northern CA where it's politically incorrect to even hint that you MIGHT be in any way intolerant of anyone different than yourself, had never been exposed to racism on a personal level. So, when I married my husband and witnessed prejudice toward him, I became super-sensitive to it. He would let it go, and I would take it really personally on his account. Moving here, I've noticed that some of it could be aimed at my own race, but I, like my husband did, choose to ignore it instead of giving it any power. And, I feel it comes from a different place. Not that any kind of racism is ever justified, but I think people are more acutely aware of the differences in each group BECAUSE there are so many different groups. I do think it's funny that many people who are part of the Caucasian race get so upset about it being aimed at them, but don't seem to notice when it's aimed at Mexicans in CA, Puerto Ricans in New York, or Blacks in virtually every part of the country. It just seems like a big double standard to me....
"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars."
"How do you know i am mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the cat "or you wouldnt have come here."
I happen to understand and agree with all that you just wrote, lotus.
Your post addressed the complexities.
You may not realize it, but "you reap what you sow" and "you get what you give back" and a few variations, are indeed becoming a sort of collective mantra. I hear it every day, as if it is all just that simple, and I think it's to the point where it does some harm.
When people went down to the south to register black voters in the 60's, no one said stuff like "you get what you give back." People acknowledged it was a tough world with all too much hatred. Hatred hasn't disappeared.
People ask, will there be prejudice in Hawai'i, and people say, oh, only if you bring it with you. Or "it's never happened to me so it must only happen to jerks." Which leaves that new person no way to cope with a bad vibe if it should come his or her way. I think it does people a disservice.
There's good and bad. It's not the worst I've ever seen, by far, but not the best either.
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Hello Punaweb,
This is my first post, I've been lurking for a while. This topic hit a nerve so I thought I would jump in.
My experience on the Big Island has been mixed but I'm still new here, about a year. Lived in HPP and North Hilo (Paukaa). Raised in the Midwest and also lived in the Pacific Northwest.
The whole "you get what you give" message that gets repeated often to the issue of prejudice on the Big Island really is a disservice. In a way I believe it immediately assumes the person that perceives prejudice has obviously done something to deserve it.
Usually this goes hand in hand with the assumption that anybody who perceives prejudice from locals is just a white person getting a taste of their own medicine. Another way of excusing the behavior it seems. Or there is the "its a Hawaii thing".
I think the main issue is localism with a healthy dose of race issue thrown in the mix. My feeling is that this has a lot to do with East Side Big Island and might be less so on the West Side.
What has struck me is that I get a vibe in Hawaii that locals think of the Mainland as monolithic. What I mean is that locals don't seem to ask much about what its like where you are from specifically; its just you are from the Mainland, end of story. Very different from other places I've lived or visited.
I moved here with no expectations. I was socialized "Midwest Nice" so I usually go around expecting smiles and friendliness. Haven't gotten much of that from locals, which surprised me at first. I've adjusted but I have to say that I'm now surprised when I find friendliness here at this point. Which is disappointing as usually in the past I've been surprised by unfriendliness, but after so many times of getting a smile returned with a scowl while running errands in Hilo I've adjusted.
Hawaii is quite an experience. It is what it is, as they say.
I suppose I should include that I'm not white but I definitely wouldn't be mistaken for a local. I experienced plenty of bad behavior from rednecks growing up so I'm familiar with issues of racism and prejudice. But I didn't let that make me think all white people are the same and nor will I think that locals are all the same.
I intend to continue to soak up as much as I can of local ways. Since I'm still relatively new here so I can't say anything definitive regarding Big Island Aloha, but I can say I think my perception has fallen since first I arrived.
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Rob,
The point of your story is that if you are offering beer it had better be cold or else what is the point.
Aloha, John
John Maloney
310.562.0362
johnmaloney3@me.com
Hawaii Architect AR8082
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Aloha Freestate and welcome to the club.
Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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This is a very interesting topic and I hope I can add to it from a slightly different perspective.
I grew up in SE England where people are generally friendly and extremely polite, but on the whole keep themselves to themselves. The only time you would acknowledge a stranger is if they let you go ahead of them in a queue or they gave way for you when driving down a narrow street. Then the strict social rules took over - a wave of the hand if you were in a car and an acknowledging wave back from the other driver. A "that's very kind of you, thank you" if someone opened a door for you or let you into the queue, followed by an equally polite "Not at all, my pleasure" by the other person. You would then never talk to that person ever again.
In the late 80s I moved to NW England and had people say "good morning" to me when I passed them on the street walking to college. I'd never seen them in my life before and it took me a few days to get used to it, but it was wonderful! The social rules were still strict though, you say good morning and perhaps comment about the weather, but that's it.
That small change in attitudes prepared me for what I'd experience here.
This is the friendliest place I have ever experienced (HPP - Kaloli Point). People wave at you from the driver seat of other cars simply because you're driving the other way past them. Joggers, cyclists, dog-walkers all wave as you past them. If you're walking then people stop and talk. They don't just say "Hello", it's a full-blown conversation about family, where you live and the one I really love - "you have a great accent!".
On the other hand, I'm seeing this change, albeit slowly. I think it's probably due to the number of people moving to Kaloli Point from the mainland to retire. I now wave at someone walking their dog and they turn away and pretend not to see me. This isn't true for most people I pass, but I am seeing more of a mainland or even British-type of behavior down here, and I hope the trend doesn't continue.
On the whole, though, people here are the friendliest people I have ever met.
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Rob, I loved your story.
Tom, yours too.
Freestate, I live in Paukaa do you still live there?
Lastly, I cannot speak for the other islands, I have never lived on any of them, but I, like Rob have pretty much been blown away by the true Aloha spirit I have found here. And I think people here, both transplants and locals are the friendliest and most generous of spirit that I have ever met. That is only my experience, but I know others who have told me the same. I have also heard a few bad neighbor stories, so I know this is not a place without unfriendly or surly people. I just have not met them yet, when and if I do, I will remember all of the aloha I have experienced far and above the one or two bad apples.
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com
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A good test is starting a conversation with somone and you finally tell them you plan to move to Hawai'i (or already live here). Watch the reaction.
I have never had a problem yet!
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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Devany,
Yes, still in Paukaa.
I should also say that Rob's story and Tom's story were very much what I think is normal for a community. Very much like where I grew up and the other places I've lived. Your neighbor is whoever you cross paths with, not simply determined by address. I just haven't experienced much of that out here from locals. The welcoming has come mostly from transplants.
The reason I wanted to post on this thread to offer an alternative viewpoint of a non-white person from the Mainland that is new to Hawaii. Because of where I grew up (non-white in the middle of Kansas) I think I'm pretty tuned in to other folks. I can sense the difference between when people are giving a "hello neighbor" vibe versus "you don't belong here".
However I do keep in mind regarding the Hawaii experience is that I'm a visitor even though we live here. Meaning we will likely only be here for another few years, unless something unforeseen happens. We came here for a unique career opportunity, not because it was a lifelong dream to live in Hawaii. I'm not saying we were reluctant, only that we didn't feel a "calling" and approached it pretty neutral.
We did think of it as a great opportunity to experience a very different part of the USA; and we've certainly gotten that.
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Freestate,
Yes, you did get to experience a very different part of the USA and lucky you to come with a career opportunity. Jobs and the cost of living are why a lot of people do not stay here. I do appreciate your point of view. I'd guess that living in Kansas as a minority would make you stick out, whereas here, we come in a thousand hues and with so many backgrounds that almost everyone fits in the demographics. Even the Royalty in Hawaii married into European families... there is a little bit of everybody here.
I agree the other transplants are extremely friendly and welcoming, as we are in the same state of mind for the most part. I think that is one of the greatest things about Punaweb, it sort of knits us together with a common love of place, even though we are all here for various reasons, in different times of our lives and we are sprinkled about East Hawaii and the mainland.
We live on Paukaa Drive on the cliff. It would be fun to meet you and yours sometime. Not many Punawebbers live up here. Send me an e-mail and maybe we can figure out something once I am well again.
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com
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