Ocean access in Hawaii? What are the facts?

[Devany]

I also "don't get Obie's statement, as mean high water mark/tide line is beyond the tide pools, that is OCEAN water coming in to fill them and Dave, you are spot on about the WTMLCD.

I have no issues with ocean access, I am delighted that the coastline belongs to the people, even the part I live on. Though, not many people want to rappel our cliffs! Though there are some BIG opihi down there. My only concern is that if someone were to get hurt going down there, who is libel? The state, the homeowner or the idiot?

I have heard from some people that there is actually an ordinance that every so many feet... like every 150 feet along the shore, there needs to be access. Now, if that is so the Shipman Estate took some liberty there, as it takes a very very long hike to get to the beach there, but it is worth it:http://myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com/2009/02/shipmanhaena-beach-hidden-gem-of-puna.html You can get to the beach alright... but it sure is not handicap accessible!


Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany

www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by Devany

I have no issues with ocean access, I am delighted that the coastline belongs to the people, even the part I live on. Though, not many people want to rappel our cliffs! Though there are some BIG opihi down there. My only concern is that if someone were to get hurt going down there, who is libel? The state, the homeowner or the idiot?

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The State of Hawaii has granted liability immunity against private property owners who are required to provide public access. So long as you did nothing to contribute to any injury, you shouldn’t be sued. Consult an attorney to ensure you fully understand the law.

quote:

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Originally posted by Devany

I have heard from some people that there is actually an ordinance that every so many feet... like every 150 feet along the shore, there needs to be access.

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The spacing is not absolute; it is desired spacing depending on zoning, hazards, terrain, and type of public space being accessed. Example, CN, CO, RD, RM. RS, and V zoning calls for a desired spacing of 800 to 1,000 feet. Property designated any resort type the desired spacing is 1,000 to 2,000 feet. Agricultural zoned land is from 1,000 to 2,500 depending on the type of “A” zoning. For O and U zoned property it is 2,000 to 2,500 feet. But all this is determined by other factors as well so you can have an area where the spacing can exceed 3,000 feet or no access is required.

No where can I find anything that states 150 feet is required. The desired minimum is 800 feet apart.

The minimum access is 6 feet by State law but each County can set their own requirements so long as its not smaller than 6 feet. Hawaii County is ten feet wide.

The item that confuses most is the issue of “shoreline” access versus “the shoreline” access. Translation: the actual shoreline such as beaches, marshes, tidal pools, rock, versus where a cliff is involved. If the “upper reaches of the wash of waves is against a cliff”, the portion of the top of the cliff becomes public access. So if private property ends at a cliff, and that water is crashing against that cliff below, it appears that at the top of the cliff, 10 feet from that cliff is all public access.

Since the courts have not dealt directly with the whole picture at once, just isolated pieces of the laws, there’s confusion abound. Additionally, there are time grand fathered issues as well as prior regulations and ruling that complicate many older owned properties.

To get a sense, here are some of the regulations:

Hawaii Revised Statues:
Sec 46-6.5, 115-2, 115-3, 115-4, 115-5, 115-7, 115-9, 205A, 264-1

Hawaii County Code:
Chapter 34

[Devany]

Thanks Bob, that was very detailed information. In the case of our cliff, it is 60-75' above the rocks below, The water does not actually hit the cliff, except in severe storms, We have deep soil with bedrock at about 30' according to the geology report we got, but I still do not stand on the edge of that cliff and we discourage anyone to do so. We do have a series of ladders going down to the rocks, but we have not attempted to go down there. We are thinking of removing the upper ladder.

Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany

www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com

[Obie]

"You mean some of the tidepools, right? I'm sure you're aware of the Waiopae Tidepools Marine Life Conservation District. If the name doesn't say it all, here's a description:"

http://hawaii.gov/dlnr/dar/coral/mlcd_waiopae.html

Dave,

I meant all of the tidepools including those is the MLCD.The MLCD limits certain activities,but the tidepools for the most part were on private property and the MLCD did not take that right away.No one will ever be able to build on those submerged lands again,but for whatever reason,owners are still paying property taxes on them.

Look at the TMK maps here:

http://www.co.hawaii.hi.us/maps/tmk/1.htm

Scroll down to h14002.tif.

At the bottom center of this map is Vacationland tmk's 67-68-69-70.
Below that and to the left is the private property that is now the tidepools.


"I also "don't get Obie's statement, as mean high water mark/tide line is beyond the tide pools, that is OCEAN water coming in to fill them and Dave, you are spot on about the WTMLCD."

Devany,

The tidepools were once dry land that had houses on them.They are still privately owned.

It is explained here in detail.Click on the large pdf file:
http://www.hawaii-county.com/planning/kss.html

Vacationland has provided access across private land at several places and these are marked.However,the roads are privately owned and we could legally block public access by vehicle and make everyone walk in from Red Road.

[Laughing_girl]

"The MLCD extends from the highwater mark at the shoreline"

There was ample opportunity a year ago June to mark the shoreline and actually make a decision on the actual shoreline by the COH staff, Chris Conger with the SOH/DLNR, and Dan Berg/Independent Hawaii Surveyors all on site including Rene Siracusa and rest of planning commission the following day - at that time (one of the 4 king tide days in 2008 that took place between 8 am and 4 pm M-F and was 3.2+) but no one did.

WHY? here are my thoughts - 1) one of the surveys done was for the Vacationland road (Waiopae), the second one was for a homeowner's property survey so somehow that makes it less "official"? 2) if the shoreline was actually determined, then the properties Betty speaks of would have to be condemned which is a loss of income to COH or SOH, along with those property owner's losses. 3) the other thought was why do it all at once and actually save money for the COH and SOH since the survey was already taking place?? Gee, I saw about $1500 worth of Planning Dept wages standing there maybe more in a two day time period and I am only guessing at their salaries conservatively. 4) because that day was the "perfect NON-storm". No wind, No waves, no rain. Calm, blue and beautiful so the shoreline not as far inland as stormy, windy days with big waves.

COH staff about choked and stamped their little feet because it had to accept that day in June for a home owner's survey because the perimeters are the same if it had been windy, with big waves and no named storm.